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Author
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Topic: In Ear Monitors
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David Kurrasch
Member From: Royse City, Texas, USA
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posted 03 December 2006 08:12 PM
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I'd like to find out what other steel players think of using in ear monitors on stage, as opposed to just using a wedge, and your steel amp. The band I'm currently working with is the second band I've been with where I'm the only player who doesn't use them. I've tried them twice, and both times I lasted about two gigs before I pulled them out, and gave up on them. I feel like I lose some control of my sound when I only hear it through the ear-buds. It also kills the whole live feel, when I'm isolated from the room sound. I can play in the studio with headphones on, and do just fine. For live performance however, I just can't get it to work.
Are any of you using ear monitors and loving them? If so, was there a long period of adjustment before they were comfortable?
Another observation: from live shows I've seen where the steel player is in-ear, and has no amp on stage, the steel sound out front is never what it should be. I've seen it in club bands, and at big concerts. The guy on stage might sound great in his own mix, but the front of house engineer has no clue what to do with a direct signal from a steel player. If the steel player has an amp on stage, at least I know I can go stand close to him and hear the steel, even when the sound guy has him buried. I've seen a few big-artist shows where you sould see the steelers fingers moving, but not hear a note he was playing, even right next to him! |
Ray DeVoe
Member From: Columbia, Tennessee, USA
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posted 04 December 2006 04:12 AM
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HI DavidI recently tried Shure in ear monitors and had about the same experience as you. It takes alot of time to get used to them. In our band, I always sit to the far right side. I found that running an in ear monitor in my left ear and leaving the right one out, was about the only way it worked for me. That way, the left ear monitor blocked out the sometimes "over whelming" lead guitar players amp that is located to my left and I was still able to hear my own amp with my right ear. I think most of us "weekend players" have already lost some hearing capabilities over the years playing loud enough to reach the other end of the room, before the bands bought big enough P.A. systems that we could then run through the mains. Thats my take anyway. Ray DeVoe |
Jeff Agnew
Member From: Dallas, TX
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posted 04 December 2006 04:58 AM
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David,Two questions: Why would using ear monitors require you to not use an amp? quote:
I feel like I lose some control of my sound when I only hear it through the ear-buds.
Could you elaborate, please? I'm not sure I understand the relationship between ear monitors and losing control of your sound. (Unless you were referring to the fact that you also went amp-less.) |
mtulbert
Member From: Plano, Texas 75023
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posted 04 December 2006 05:33 AM
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I too have have a Shure headphone system, which I use sparingly. It really depends on the gig and how loud the venue is. I use them more for blocking out the sound. Something that you might be able to do is sound check without the ear pieces to make sure that you are balanced properly in the mains and then go the ears pieces. My Shure system has a small mixer with it so I can get the monitor feed into my ears and add the amount of steel I need to hear for myself. It works well. There are other systems out there that allow each player to tailor his own mix, we do not have that system.
Ray....the very worst thing you can do for your ears is to have one piece in and the other out. Your body naturally curtails the high end of your hearing in loud envirnments to protect your hearing. If you do one piece in and the other out, your body does not have any idea how to handle it and normally will not shut down your hearing naturally.
The end result could be total loss of hearing. This happeneded to a couple of buddys of mine in Nashville who were studio players. They would use one part of the headphone and listen to the room with the other. Of course alot of this depends on the levels, but IMHO it is not good to do this. Regards and happy holidays. Mark T. |
Darvin Willhoite
Member From: Leander, Tx. USA
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posted 04 December 2006 06:45 AM
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There was a thread on this subject a few weeks ago, here was my reply there:
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I have used a Shure PSM600 system for a few years now with my church band and I love it. I use the E5 earphones that have dual drivers, so I can hear the lower frequencies better, they aren't cheap, but they sound good and are built well. We have had Aviom personal mixers for a couple of years now which makes it even better. This allows each musician to set up their own monitor mix. I use the wireless system because I sometimes play guitar or mandolin, and it makes the switch much easier.This subject has come up a few times before and lots of people don't like them. I don't even use an amp, I just play through a Digitech 2112 preamp/effects unit, plus a couple of stomp boxes, and directly into the main board. I am very happy with the sound I get, and judging by the digital recordings we make off the board every Sunday, it sounds pretty good in the house too. -------------------------
I play 5 or 6 times a year away from church and use an amp, and I'm no longer used to having an amp blasting in my ears. I would much rather use my in-ears. ------------------
Darvin Willhoite
Riva Ridge Recording
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David Kurrasch
Member From: Royse City, Texas, USA
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posted 04 December 2006 06:56 AM
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Jeff,One of the reasons that the bands I've worked with have gone to ears is so that they can cut down on stage volume by eliminating all of the amps and monitors. I've been able to convince them to let me keep mine, since I don't play extemely loud.
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Michael Haselman
Member From: St. Paul Park, Minnesota, USA
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posted 04 December 2006 09:01 AM
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I started the last thread on this and I finally got to try them last Sat. night. Very different, took a few sets to get it dialed in. The steel sounded wonderful. We use the direct out on my NV112, and you can get stage volume down to next to nothing. What they really help with is vocal harmonies. You will know if the harmonies are on or off and it helps with your vocal intonation. Let's face it, they're here and they aren't going away. Makes the stage look a hell of a lot better too without all those wedges up front. I'm a convert.------------------
Mullen RP, Webb 6-14E, Peavey NV112, Hilton volume. |
Jeff Agnew
Member From: Dallas, TX
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posted 04 December 2006 10:41 AM
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Thanks, David. I hadn't quite followed the logic but your explanation is clear.A few things -- it depends on the band but most feel the in-ears allow them to play either with smaller amps or at greatly reduced stage volume. Completely eliminating them seems overkill. I'm using the same rig with ears as I do when playing without, but on our normal stage the amps can be placed behind the backline curtain or some other location that keeps them from bleeding into the audience. As you've been able to keep your amp so far, this might be an option for you. quote:
It also kills the whole live feel, when I'm isolated from the room sound.
Yes, it definitely requires adjustment. Our theatre luckily incorporates an audience (ambient) mic which is used to add presence to the DVD and CD recordings they sell. I've been able to add a touch of this to my monitor mix and it's a huge help. Might not be practical if you're doing club gigs in different locations, although it would be easy to set up if you have an extra channel on the board. Failing that, you might try adding very small touch of reverb to your monitor send to help reduce that dry sound. quote:
from live shows I've seen where the steel player is in-ear, and has no amp on stage, the steel sound out front is never what it should be.
To the extent that none of us has any control over the FOH sound once it leaves our amp/DI this isn't unique to using in-ears. I'll hazard a guess that for touring acts the main motivation in eliminating amps is weight/cost/cartage savings. And once you eliminate the stage amps the natural progression is toward in-ears. But using them while still maintaining amps is a very viable solution in my experience.
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David Kurrasch
Member From: Royse City, Texas, USA
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posted 04 December 2006 11:38 AM
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Michael, I can definitely see where they would be great for singers. It's very hard to get a good vocal mix in a floor monitor. If I were singing, I'd probably be more inclined to use them. For playing steel , however, being isolated from the sound of my amp, and of the band, just takes the fun out of playing live. I will avoid using them as long as I can get away with it! |
Michael Haselman
Member From: St. Paul Park, Minnesota, USA
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posted 04 December 2006 12:05 PM
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We also have an ambient mike channel. We're using the Aviom system where everyone has their own personal mixer, which is wayyy cool. So, my first experience with in-ears was with my own personal mixer. No need to summon the monitor tech every 5 minutes. I can't recommend these enough. |
Dick Wood
Member From: Springtown Texas, USA
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posted 04 December 2006 02:24 PM
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I started using them 4 years ago and it took some time to get used to them.I was one that used one in and one out like alot of players do.Some of the pro's were a lot less equipment/weight to load in and out every weekend which was very nice. Less onstage volume which had a positive and negative effect in that it helps on the ears but you loose much of the warmth. You could also mix in or cut out whatever you wanted. We also had a closed onstage mic so the bass player could call songs or give us a heads up on some important issue without the crowd hearing it. The bad side was the sound in my experience tends to become sterile or cold if you will and it made me almost hate to play on some occasions. I recently started playing with a band that uses wedges and I like the more open feeling I get but the loud volume is back again. It sounds like you may have a good situation if you can use a wedge and control your volume and the others are happy with in-ears so enjoy. |
Darvin Willhoite
Member From: Leander, Tx. USA
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posted 04 December 2006 07:43 PM
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I failed to mention in my earlier post that we too have ambient audience mics on a separate channel of the Aviom, which allows us to get all the room sound we want. ------------------
Darvin Willhoite
Riva Ridge Recording
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Ron Randall
Member From: Dallas, Texas, USA
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posted 04 December 2006 08:10 PM
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The Aviom system is used in our large church. The church has an elaborate sound system. Everyone seems to like it. It is all about the songs, and most of the time that means it is all about the vocals and the audience's experience.
The ambient mic(s) on stage is a must. This allows the band to talk back and forth in rehearsal, and to hear the audience in performance. Therefore, one does not have to keep putting an ear bud in and out.
The director can talk one-way to the musicians thru a headset mic that only we can hear. There is a new high end earbud that has a tiny mic built in the earbud to pick up the ambient between songs. Made by Sensaphonics.
Each performer can turn the ambient on or off or mix it in.
I saw this at NAMM in Austin.
I hope this helps.
http://www.sensaphonics.com/news_04.html Ron |
Michael Hartz
Member From: Decorah, Iowa, USA
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posted 04 December 2006 09:32 PM
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David, I've been using in-ears for about 3 years now and love them. First, I use dual driver earphones with a Shure PSM400 system. The dual drivers sound the best for steel and makes the whole band sound full in my ears,like a good CD. Second, we use a 24 ch. board on stage separate from the FOH so we can get whatever we want in our mix plus we can tweak it onstage if we want. Third, an ambient mic is very helpful to blend in crowd noise to give it that LIVE feel. And last, I use one of Brad's Revelation preamps to run direct. It has a bright/dark switch that if you set it to dark, takes out those piercing highs that often result from the horns on your mains. My tone out front sounds better now running direct than it did with anything I used before. The tubes add alot of warmth and our soundman says he just runs my eq straight up on the board. As for the earphones, I used to use the Shure E-5's but Westone UM-2's (Westone actually designed the E-5's for Shure and now has their own version) sound alot better and are actually $100 to $200 cheaper depending on where you get them. Hope this helps. | |
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