He had been waiting since early summer for the guitar and and everytime he called he was given another reason or date for delivery. I guess not being a road musician makes a difference.

If a manufacturer sells at "retail" to consumers instead of "wholesale" to a dealer, Lots more $$$.

Without getting into specifics, in the typical supply chain (and more than just musical items) there can be a "manufacturer's" price, a "distributer's" price, a "wholesale" price and a "list" price.

This is not the case with the small custom built/hand built shops. But the ones that do sell to dealers can make a bigger profit selling direct to consumers.

I've made numerous purchases from Bobbe and haven't been disappointed yet, plus we love to "window shop" his store frequently to see the great lineup of guitars and accessories.

------------------
B#

[This message was edited by Bill Sharpe on 22 September 2001 at 01:10 PM.]

------------------
1985 Emmons push-pull, Session 500, Nashville400, 65 re-issue Fender Twin, Fender Tele

BTW, gotta love Bobbe, too -- a great individual and even better, a terrific friend (Bobbe, kisses and hugs from Toria)

[This message was edited by Latina on 22 September 2001 at 09:20 AM.]

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1985 Emmons push-pull, Session 500, Nashville400, 65 re-issue Fender Twin, Fender Tele

This may be "premature" but if the mfg in this case Emmons gets little or no support from its existing dealers,,,they go out on their own to sell the product direct ,,if that is the case here,,Im not sure that is what is happening.

I think every specialized product should have "specialized" people selling their product,,as the thread above,,,"we dont have pedals now but will soon," I would rather hear that from the dealer,,,who should be the
company's "go between"

They are not selling a product that just comes out of a box and "away we go" it takes
adjustments etc,,,,,what big companies forget
it is the "Dealer who has to hold the customers Hand",,,,I'll bet Bobbe has held many hands to keep the ship on an even "keel" all these years. I'll bet this all works out,,Ron Jr, is a smart young man,& Im certain once the dust settles it will be okay,,,,

But ya gotta have those people in the field who hold hands...Im glad I never worked for a big company. Bobbe,,,,,you never held my hand....Smiley did,,,,,whats the deal??? Im getting ready to "retire" from active duty,I hope my comments do not upset anyone,,,,seems
I have a "knack of doing so without my knowing I was guilty of such,,,.

Maybe Jeff was misunderstood.........???

Support your local Music Stores, or we won't have any left.

Bobbe, I didn't know that you'ld put up a purchaser if they came to town, that's great, but I'll settle for you and me goin' over to Gabes and jammin' with that bunch when I finally get there. LOL.

Bill Ford

I'll also agree with Jeff P. that my new guitars may be the best ones I've had yet.

Do support your dealers because they are the ones setup to properly support you and have
the time and experience to answer your
questions.

Jerry http://www.slidestation.com

[This message was edited by Jerry Brightman on 26 September 2001 at 11:09 AM.]

They said that since I tune my 2nd string on my E9 neck by ear, which means it has no "beats" but is flat to their recommended tuning chart and Jeff Newman's, that it was impossible to drop that string down a whole step (C#) to match my 5th string with the 2nd pedal engaged.

I said "B.S." and told the dealer I bought it from to remove the damn Eb to E raise off the other knee lever (since I've never used that change anyway) and the damn thing jumped all the way down to C natural.

So much for the factory telling me it was impossible to drop that "ear tuned" Eb to C#, huh?

I figured at that point that they no longer had any employee's who could actually adjust or trouble shoot their guitars.

My next purchase was to be a SD-10 C6 with a pad. They said they never built one like that and it would take months extra and their quote was shy high.

Jerry Fessenden built the exact guitar for me in 3 or 4 weeks at about half the price they wanted and the guitar is easily as good as an Emmons.
http://www.fessendensteelguitars.com/HH.html

I'm not saying that I would never buy another Emmons (I bought another used one), but I'd much rather deal with a dealer or builder who can be responsible for the instrument.

Regards,
HH

P.S. RATHER THAN BE MISUNDERSTOOD, LET ME ADD THAT I LOVE MY TWO D-10 EMMONS. I PLAY MY LEGRANDE II ON ALL GIGS AND WILL SOON USE MY LGIII (WHEN I GET IT ADJUSTED).

I'M SURE THAT NOW THAT THE COMPANY IS BACK IN FAMILY HANDS, ALL PROBLEMS WILL BE CORRECTED AND EVERYTHING WILL BE BACK TO NORMAL. BEST OF LUCK TO RON JR. !!!

[This message was edited by Harry Hess on 23 September 2001 at 07:07 PM.]

Years ago(everything was years ago with me)
I introduced Ron Lashley to Henry Manny Goldrich,,Henry is Mannys son and took over after Manny passed away.

I posted this back a few months ago in one of my long long Fender stories, Here is some of it again.

I introduced Ron to Henry Manny,,Ron was looking for a dealer in the New York area to represent Emmons guitars.

At the time a fellow Fender rep and friend of mine Luke Morris asked me to help Ron get started with a dealer in NYC,,,,I told most of this story and to me it's boring,,but this
is how I got my Emmons guitar.Luke Morris was the Fender rep in No Carolina .

I explained to Ron that the dealers in New York City and especially West 48th street in Manhattan are not promotor's of products,,,,they are good payers,,they have the money to stock most everything, but take little time to promote a product, I explained
that it was the "mom & pop " store that gave the customer the tour of the product and took
the time to sell the product and offer service as well. There were however two giant
stores on West 48th street that operated like a mom & pop store,,,WHY you ask??? because they were just that..Sam Ash & Mannyys were family owned and operated in the same manner expected of a "mom & pop" store.

Ron was hell bent on having his guitars in the most famous street in the music world West 48th street. I told him OK,,,I would help him get his foot in the door as I was doing much business with Mannys with Fender & in addition Henry and myself were friends.

If you want to look back on the entire story
and you have about an hour to read until "eye
strain" sets in I will post the link to that story. But I'll try to get to the point,,,Yes
Jody ,,,,lets get to the point,(you pain in the %$ss)

After much to do re Rons meeting Henry I told
Henry he would be getting "the best steel guitar" manufactured. Understand Mannys and very few if any, had anyone with a bit of knowledge to sell a pedal guitar,,,the strength of the big dealers are "their location" they have the financial resources & everyone wants to be in what they call the big leagues of the music retail business.

This is great,,but for a new product it can hurt the manufacturer as they just dont promote a "new product" let the little mom & pop dealers promote the product and break their backs,,,,,then in come the "big guns"
to take over the "beach head" & the mom & pop
stores are left in the dust.The exceptions were Sam Ash & Mannys both very large stores
but owned and operated by "family" The customer came first.

I explained this to Ron as best as I could,,but he wanted Emmoms guitars to be on West 48th street...

Ron with a little help from me was able to get Mannys to buy quite a few guitars. I agreed to help a few of Manny's sales people
get a bit of knowledge regarding the Emmons guitar. Sure it would sell itself in the long run,,,but the stores on 48th were looked upon as being big discounters etc,,,that was in some cases true,,but NOT all of them,,,

The price is always right on west 48th street
again,,,,,they have the location and the money and have every manufacturer trying to get into those stores,,,exposure location & the whole nine yards, (Is this getting too long????)

A few weeks later Manny received his shipment from Emmons,,,,he called me & asked me to come in to help his fellows get aqquainted with this weird looking thing with all those gas pedals and levers hangin off the bottom of the guitar".

I promised Ron I would do this,,but not to diclose my personal interest in his welfare re his business dealings with Mannys,,,,,I did have a job & I dont think the suits at Fender would appreciate my role in this scenario.

After Ron got started ,,,I told Ron I wanted
to buy an Emmons guitar,,,not a problem,,he told me Fred Trogden would personally build my guitar from the ground up, I thought" who's Fred Trogden???

I ordered the guitar,,,listen up please,,Ron
asked me to work the price out with Henry at Mannys,,,as he felt uncomfortable selling the
guitar "direct to me" as he had Mannys as his NY dealer,,,,,I could have said WHAT?????
are you kidding me?? after I got you started
you want me to buy through a dealer at retail??? I respected Ron for that,,I discussed this with Henry Goldrich,,,he was impressed with Ron's sincere way of doing business,,,,,hey we are talking about "loyalty" and respect here,,,That was
something you dont find everyday Is there any of this left in the year 2001???.

Ron called me and hoped that I would understand,,,I said Ron I respect you no end for this and Mannys does as well.

I received the guitar a couple of months later,,as for the price I paid,,,,,,these were Henry Goldrichs words....I have to charge you for the guitar,,I hate to but I will give it to you for my cost. I didnt want that,,I expected nothing in return from anyone,,,I was making a good living with Fender and Mannys was my biggest account,,I didnt care what it would cost me. I took out my checkbook to pay Mannys,,,Henry said,,,no checks accepted,,,,,,bring me cash next week when you come in.Take the guitar home.

Keep in mind that on my weekly sales call's to Mannys,,I would re-tune and sometimes replace a string or two or three and help them sell a guitar,,,,they knew next to nothing about pedal guitars and "couldnt care less" this was back in 1969.

The sales management at Fender became aware of my goodwill act with Emmons & Mannys and I was reported for doing something that he (the infomer) thought was a "conflict of interest.
It all boiled down to this person wanted my butt into hot water & possibly have my job as a Fender rep. I made Henry aware of this
he wanted to know who it was that wrote the letter to destroy me. I knew then who it was and to this day have never told anyone who that culprit was. I did confront him after I learned it was "he" who tried to do me in.

He was supposedly one of my friends with another company ,,,he always gave me the big hand shake,,,I didnt see the "knife" in his other hand,,,I dont look for the bad, I look for the good in people.

Fender had no problem with my personal relationship with Mannys or Ron Lashley & what I was doing in the scenario. Next week came around,,,I had the cash ready for Mannys
The guitar has 9 floor pedals and six knee
levers with case and volume pedal etc etc included two extra volume pots "Allen Bradley" & four extra sets of strings,

Took out the cash,,,,,Henry said,,,,your money is not accepted here,,,,he took me aside and said,,,,,Hey Jody ,,,dont tell Ron this,,,,but that guitar is Mannys gift to you
for all you have done,,,he then added,,,,,what could I do to show my appreciation give you a "Fender"????

I called ole Ron,,,he knew about this before
hand as he and Mannys discussed this,,,To set the record straight,,,,,Ron DID NOT GIVE
ME the guitar,,,,,Mannys bought and paid for it and gave it to me.

This should give you an idea of the credibility and high esteem I have always held for Ron Lashley,,,I beleive if any of Ron has rubbed off on Ron Jr,,,and I hope it has,,,there is no problem,,I know of no one else that would do that for me,,,,but as Ron and Henry replied,,,,we (Ron & Henry) know of no one else to do what you have done for both of us,,,,and as agree'd Mannys wants you to have that guitar. Bobbe,,,,,you still there???

My question is,,,,,,,how could I shorten my long stories????

My open comment to Ron Jr. Ron,,,,,,the dealer or dealers who are there for you should not be overlooked,,,If Bobbe Seymour
is "your man in Nashville" leave it be,,,,selling direct has its advantages I know,,,,but the biggest advantage is having
dealers like Bobbe "whats his name" I dont think you can go wrong,,,,,,direct selling is not always the "direct road to success.
If you have dealers who dont support your product,,,,refer them to those who do, Let your "infantry" invade the market,,,,,you are the General and run the factory,,,let the Bobbe's and Scotty's handle the retail end,,,,,and fellows,,,,this is THE END,,,I am going to write to Washington to see If I can write George W. Bush's speeches,,,be well
this will be available in "paper back this fall...look for it at your local bookstore & tell em I sent you,,,,,goodnight Oh I remember his name "Hardpickerousowski III,,,will there be a "FOURTH"???? here comes bOb......move this (if you can lift it bOb) to "long stories" or "mini series" uh oh
here comes my wife,,,,,Its 1 am do you know where your husband is??????????????????....
PS what ever happened to Tony Lashley Ron's other son??? PS GOOD NEWS IS,,,I will no longer particpate in the "Steel Guitar Forum"
Nothing personal,,,,but I myself am tired of my long stories, If you think reading them is difficult,,,,its much more difficult for me to post...I have had fun here "sometimes"
but Its time to leave,,,,,this time It will
stick...my very best to all of you,,,,I edited as my spelling is poor,

[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 22 September 2001 at 10:15 PM.]

I have been an Emmons dealer since 81. (Not nearly as long as Bobbe, but I'm not that old. )

Little Ron was, and most likely still is, worried about the guitars quality and sound. Hopefully this will remain the standard for years to come. He built the majority of the guitars for quite some time. I've known him since he was a little kid running around the steel guitar convention. I do think the reason the LLIII sounds as close to the push-pull is because of Ron Sr., Jack Strayhorn and Ron Jr.

Ron, Jr. (if you're reading this,): Good luck! I still stand (well, okay, sit) behind Emmons Guitars. I have played them since the mid 70's. I don't see that changing any time soon.

I had to return as much as I intended not to
as Iam not the proffesor nor the "marketing
genius" many profess to be.

Here are a few points that come to mind regarding "Dealer Direct" or selling to retail outlets.

First off,,,,the maunufacturer must consider
his capabilities with regards to how "strong" his finances are. How much product can he build and still maintain a high quality product,,what is the competition
offering in quality,features,and cost profit
etc.

The advantage of selling direct,,,,there is no accounts receive'ables to be concerned with,,most all direct sales are COD or certified check.This means a constant cash flow important to any business large or small.

There is no need to finance a dealer who stocks the product and does not pay for the merchandise in the required amount of time put forth by "terms and policy".

What endorsements are necessary "gratis" for the product to get exposure. Many companies have over extended themselves with "product endorsers,,,where does this end? How do you say Im sorry to a well know steel player who offers to endorse the product.

It seems that selling direct applies to manufacturers who have a limited production schedule. They are of the "majority" as most all steel guitar manufacturers are relatively specialized and
cannot build enough guitars to market through a dealer structure. They more than likely have no desire to do so.

Paul Bigsby manufactured one guitar per month
could he have manufactured more per month??
Was he satisfied producing limited amounts
of guitars a year?? Was John D'Angelico satisfied to sell direct? Would these people mentioned want to have been in a market to sell dealers rather than control their limited production to the consumer who buys direct.??
What constitutes the "definition" of an "authorized dealer"??....The questions are simple,,,,
Does the dealer stock a reasonable amount of
merchandise? does the dealer activly promote
the product? Does the dealer adhere to the
policy of paying his bill for the merchandise
on the floor? Does the dealer have the knowledge and desire to service the product.

There were and probably still "authorized" dealers who sell out of the catalogue,,,they do not stock the product,,,their investment in the product is "nill" they do not show support for the product they are "authorized" to sell,,,,that word authorized is misleading,,,,the dealer is "authorized" to pay his obligations on time,,,,,he is authorized to promote the product,,,service the product,,its not a one way street.

The other side of the coin which does not apply to steel guitar manufacturing,,is that the manufacturer calls the shots. The authorized dealer is obligated to purchase a
minimum amount of product,,many times much too much and disables the dealers finances.

The dealer is then in a corner,,,,has to "move the merchandise out the door" to meet his finacial obligation,,,this leads to excessive discounting,,,,,frowned upon by many manufacturers,,,they know it is done,but they turn their heads for the select few....like I dont see what you are doing,,dont let me catch you. If he is caught
using the practice of excessive discounts.,

He is then told ,,,that his excessive discount prices are in conflict with the company policies. I would often refer to this as "filling the dealer with more than he can chew and then tell him not to swallow.
Another of my favorite's is "filling the dealer with a gallon of water and "telling him not to "eliminate the water,,,the "can is off limits".
This is what leads to "transhipping" to unload a product to another non authorized dealer so that the credit terms can be met that the company puts forth.

When & if this is discovered by the manufacturer,,,the "authorized dealer is warned to cease selling to anyone other than a retail customer,,,or his so called "franchised agreement" with the company is in jeapordy and he will lose the right to sell the product, .

Price fixing has been Illegal in this country
but there are ways to get around this problem. I know of a few hard nosed companies
not music related that "police their dealers" and if it is found that the dealer discounts the product,,the company will "dry
the dealer up" shipments will be back ordered
orders not completed as ordered etc etc.

The dealer in many cases finds his inventory
shrinking and cannot replace the product. I
know this for a fact,,,I wear a well known
wrist watch that exercises that method of merchandising and the "elimination" of dealers without legal recourse by the dealer.

I also know that Carter guitars a well respected company sells to a well known "mega
dealer" Sam Ash who has at present 32 stores
nationwide. I have known the Ash family all of my life,,,I have dealt with them for years and years,,I have been to their families weddings,,,barmitzvah's graduations
and have been to the funerals of many of the Sam Ash family. I dont think that Carter guitar company could have found a better outlet for their product than Sam Ash. They are reliable,,trustworthy,,competant,amd most of all sincere in their dealing with the public.

They have many employees and it is difficult
to keep all those people up to the standards
set by The Ash Family,,,Richard,SammyJr David
and most of all Paul Ash & Jerry Ash.

What does Ron Lashley Jr do at this point,,??
he has a great product and a fine reputation
in the music industry?? I think no one should
interfere with his decision to take the best
road for his company.

To sell direct?? or not to sell direct.Is there a "middle of the road here"?? The ball
is in his court,,,,I pray that he does the right thing and Iam certain he will do just that. I am terribly sorry for this "sermon"
but since I have been on that side of the fence,,,I am aware of what is on the "other side" as well. I have always tried to meet
the happy medium,,and my business ethic's have always been "up and above board"

Music is beautiful,,,musicians are special people,,,manufacturers must keep this in mind
They are not selling "Alpo Dog Food" even though my dogs love "alpo",,,I know of two companies today who practice the art of selling a fine product,,,dealing above board
with dealers and retail customers,,,one of them is a company I worked for for many years
the other who is strong competition, one that makes a great amp that most of you use
these people make up for the others who are
"tunnel vision impaired" my speech is over I
wish Ron Jr the best of luck with whatever decision he makes.

There are many "facets" unknown to people not on the inside,,,I have been fortunate to have been with the best during my lifetime.

I also know that Meridian Mississippi is a great place to buy an amplifier. PS The expensive wrist watch I own,,,,,tells "lousy time" Im going back to a "Timex",,,Im outta here and you should all cheer and give me a
HIGH FIVE.........be well I think that is those companies that practice the "water overfill,,,,,should at the very least supply
the dealer with a "five gallon pail",,,,like that tune Pee for two and two for Pee,,Pee for me and Pee for you,,,,,Hey there's enough for everybody.......gotta get a drink
of "cool clear water" see you down the Chisolm trail, where women are women,,,,and Men are men & some are woman as well ...shhhhh here comes the Sherrif bOb..flashing his........."Badge"

[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 23 September 2001 at 12:05 PM.]