I would think an Army Chaplain in the midst of conflict has a bigger burden to bear. Playing music in a bar? I think we have a much easier "conflict"!

Also, though I posted previously about my own experiences, I do have to say that getting down to the nitty gritty, it's one thing to be a Christian and play in bars and the like, some people don't approve of a Christian being there at all for any reason and some see nothing wrong with it as long as he still acts in a Christian manner; but I'm sure that a church Preacher/Reverend/Pastor will be held to a different standard than your average Christian.

Probably most will feel that he should not be there, and I can understand this though I'm not saying I agree with it nor disagree with it. If I knew the man and knew he was a sincere Christian and had no interest in typical bar activities I wouldn't care where he went. If I did not know of the man's character, I might wonder.

That's the problem, anyone who doesn't really know the person is likely to wonder of the true character of the man, and this could be considered as "an appearance of evil". Yes if Jesus was here today He probably would be in all kinds of places talking to all kinds of people, including the worst stinking, smoke-filled bars... but I have to admit, I doubt if He'd be playing in the band. BUT...we're NOT Jesus. We are to try to be LIKE Him as much as we can, but we're still only human. As human beings, we have to go where our jobs take us.

Suppose you're a carpenter...Jesus was.... do you only build houses for Christians leading lives you approve of? No matter what your vocation you have to do your job. If you work for Radio Shack, you don't know if that computer you just sold is going to be used in a church or to visit porno sites, do you? Do you ask the customer? Of course not..... An average person, even Christians can't worry about these kinds of things, it's beyond our control. However, a Preacher again is held to higher standards and therefore has to be concerned with some things the rest of us can shrug off as "no one's business".

Maybe it isn't right but that's how it is. A bar isn't the same as having a glass of wine and a dance at a wedding party or any kind of typical social gathering, let's admit that. There are all kinds of people in the bars, some who are there to get drunk and pick somebody up and some who just want to hear a band and have a beer or coke. In fact you find all kinds of people everywhere, not just the bars. We all know that, but the bars still have the reputation of being not-so-nice places and honestly after 30 years of playing in them I'd have to say most of them deserve it.

A little background on myself: I was a good Christian kid who started playing in bars just to play music and make a few bucks when I was 15, never cared about drinking, never tried to get any beer or booze. In my early 20's I was engaged to a girl I now refer to as "the girlfriend from Hell"....put me through the ringer and in response I went a little wild for a while and did all the things people do in bars, wasn't much of a Christian at all, did all the worst things anyone can do. It wasn't the bars that "corrupted" me, but they were an easy place to be corrupt.

A few years later I left the girl and got back to God and had a few relapses but after a few more years came through it. I quit playing in bars completely and played only in Church for a few years. I considered the ministry but decided my talents are in music, not speaking. I decided to go back to music full-time, which means I play wherever the band it booked. We usually do fairs and functions but sometimes we play in a casino or bar and when we do I play with them. I don't believe I'm doing anything wrong by being there. But as I said, I do understand that a preacher is MORE than an average Christian guy, and in a way I'm sorry to say that I do think it would be better if a preacher didn't play music in a bar or nightclub....not because he's doing anything wrong, or associating with the "wrong kind of people", only because the average person will see it a certain way, and it will cause doubts on the man's character and the church. This may not be right, but it's a fact. Personally I don't care much what anyone thinks anymore, but probababy a preacher should.

That said, I still believe that the bottom line is as has already been said, "It is between you and God". Rick, I appreciate your struggle, I faced it as just a Christian musician, but you are going through it as a preacher and that's got to be a really tough one. I certainly don't think bad of you but I have to tell you my honest thoughts of the whole picture, and that's what you asked of us here. I don't believe you're doing anything wrong while you're in the bars. You just have to decide if being there at all, whether playing music or sitting in the corner having a coke, is the right place for a preacher to be. I think most people Christian or not would probably say no. You have to decide if what people think matters. It's between you and God.

[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 22 May 2003 at 12:08 PM.]

His word clearly says to "obstain from all
appearance of evil"

God is not a raincoat to be pulled on and
off when life's storms are raging.
He wants to help us work out our problems
and choose His ways.
Christians do make mistakes, but hopefully
they are not the same ones over and over.
Christians ask for forgiveness daily because
they want nothing to interfere with their
walk with Christ. We may not sin everyday,
if we do, just repent and keep moving on.

There are over 3,000 members in this Forum
all have their own opinions. My concern is
for those follow these threads and have
doubts about God. Lets try and lead them
to God and not twist things out of
contents to justify our own purpose.
Again, this are my opinions.

True, bars sell alcohol that SOME people drink in excess. The majority of the people in the bars I play, do not drink in excess. They are there to dance and have fun. I have been playing in bars for over 20 years now and I can truly say that I have NEVER played in a bar where the majority of the people were plastered. Therefore, if it is ok to drink alcohol in moderation then the majority of the people I am playing to are not "sinning" and I am not promoting "sinful" behavior. I cannot be held responsible for anybody in the bar or their actions.
Furthermore, I would say for every drunk in a bar there are 2 or 3 at home who bought their beer at the local gas station and took it home...never setting foot in a bar. Should we then boycott all gas stations for being such vile wretches as to sell beer too? If you bought gas at the same gas station would you not, in turn, be promoting that gas station (or grocery store) therefore enabling them to sell even MORE alcohol to heathens?
My relationship with God is my responsibility and no one else's. I have played in bars for over 20 years and have never felt a strong conviction for doing so.

Rick, I wouldn't let other people determine what you do in your spare time. If it is right for you then go for it. You're not harming anyone!

Dave Alfstad

For example, I don't have to care much what people think but I try not to offend people (much) anyway. I'd like people to like me but if they don't, I care care. Rightly or wrongly, some people do have to care about how others percieve them or might be influenced by them. And sorry to say, but the idea of a steel-playing preacher being a great influence and blessing to all the people in the bar is very nice but actually pretty unrealistic.

Just before I quit playing out for 3 years, I was also considering the ministry (applied and was accepted to Bible college) and trying hard to be a good witness while still playing in bars. Yes there are many nice people there in some of them, but overall believe me when I tell you the majority really don't want to hear anything about "religeon". You wanna start a fight quick, just start yakking about the Bible, God, Jesus, anything like that in a bar. To think otherwise is being extremely naive. Sure once in a while you might be the right person in the right place for someone, it's not impossible. All Christians have been "sent out into the world....to spread the Good News" (to paraphrase) but evangualizing in barrooms is about equal to the camel going through the eye of a needle. Been there. Any Christian playing out should be ready to be a witness in bars or wherever, but it is not a place to deliberately choose and expect great results. Even I can't use it as an excuse for being there and I tried... it still comes down to: every man makes his own choice, and it's between Him and God. Every man also should consider his circle of influence, how they might be affected, whether that matters, and not just himself in his decision.

[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 22 May 2003 at 01:50 PM.]

No kidding...