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  How Many Jazzplayers (Page 2)

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Author Topic:   How Many Jazzplayers
David L. Donald
Member

From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

posted 20 April 2005 02:46 AM     profile     
Hey b0b you forgot one logical player...
Brother Jimbaux Cohen just above me.
He defintely plays some jazz, and well too,
Scott Henderson
Member

From: Eldon, Missouri, USA

posted 20 April 2005 07:00 AM     profile     
IMHO the steel guitar is the instrument closest to a piano. ans as far as being able to not get the proper voicings and tones I totally disagree. I personally have went up against those "traditional jazz arists" and have won their approval with the instrument. I have been shuned by guitarists who think of us as a twangy instrument. Sometimes I think some of the boundries of our instrument are not set by us but by others who are unknowledgable. Guess it's our job to cross those boundries. And yes, i get tired of sappy sax solos on country but A steeler can't play jazz??????what's wrong with this picture? I like musicians who play music and don't worry about what kind of tool I use to reflect my heart and soul. Oh I'm sorry can I say that. Not being a jazz player am I allowed to say I play from my heart??? Whatever. Sorry if I'm pissy but I have been on the receiving end of a lot of crap regarding wanting to play jazz and nobody picks you to be on their team. Oh well life goes on. gotta go work on my recoding of Birdland!!hehehehe

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Steelin' away in the ozarks and life,
Scott
www.scottyhenderson.com

Jeppe Grangaard
Member

From: Denmark

posted 20 April 2005 01:47 PM     profile     
Henry You really got a great jazz steeler in Europe. My Man here is Richard Nelson, Ireland. I heard him play Coltrane’s Favourite Things, Monk,Wayne Shorter, + standards with almost hornlike lines backed by jazz trio. Some solos bebopped and some really funky stuff too. Ohh, some jazz horn things suit pedal steel just fine! Here’s a photo from the concert www.pbase.com/borissteel/image/41515501
Jeppe

[This message was edited by Jeppe Grangaard on 20 April 2005 at 01:48 PM.]

John Steele
Member

From: Renfrew, Ontario, Canada

posted 20 April 2005 02:20 PM     profile     
Scott, that's disappointing.
I have to comment though, my own experiences have been the exact opposite. I've hunted high and low for the proverbial "jazz snob" without any luck. Everyone I've played with is interested in the steel to say the least. 99% of the jazzheads I've had the pleasure of knowing sincerely don't care what kind of instrument you use, as long as you know what's going on.
-John
p.s. And it's lead to some cool gigs, too !

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www.ottawajazz.com

Rick Schmidt
Member

From: Carlsbad, CA. USA

posted 20 April 2005 02:46 PM     profile     
My experience has been exactly like John's. I've even got a few really cool gigs because I posted this link on the forum a couple years ago: http://stevenbiondo.com/schmidt.html

Yesterday I got to do 2 high school assemblies with a jazz band including a steel drum player, a jazz pianist, a vibist, and Al Jarreau's bass player. They all liked the steel.
W Franco
Member

From: silverdale,WA. USA

posted 20 April 2005 03:12 PM     profile     
I like where this old thread is heading!. Indeed there are some Steel players actually out doing the jazz thing. Personally I've been treated very well by the jazz playing community around here. And many times they are very helpful. I just totally put my ego aside almost everyone is open and friendly.
David Mason
Member

From: Cambridge, MD, USA

posted 20 April 2005 11:44 PM     profile     
Try using a lighter bar. MUCH lighter - 4 to 7 ounces. The tone "breathes" more, it's not so dead & flat sounding. You can play faster up and down each string and get much more control over the inflection of notes - how you get into and out of each note.

A 3/4" by 3 3/8" steel bar weighs 6.5 oz, a Shubb/Pearse SP1 like Tyack and Randolph use weighs 5.5 oz. The Indian guys use tiny metal bars, 5/8" by 3" or so. Glass and acrylic bars work great too. Of course you don't get the same sustain, but stop trying to make it do exactly what it won't do, and let it do what it will do, which is sound human. You're allowed to use different bars for different sounds? Patience is a virtue.

Al Marcus
Member

From: Cedar Springs,MI USA

posted 21 April 2005 12:25 PM     profile     
David-Not a bad idea. About 35 years ago, on one of my trips to Dallas, Reece gave me a small hollowed out lightweight Bar, said he used one like it.

I have been using it ever since on faster songs, but I use my big BJS bar on the slower stuff for more sustain....al

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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

Richard Nelson
Member

From: Drogheda, Louth, Ireland

posted 24 April 2005 08:45 PM     profile     
Jeppe . Thanks for that . John Mc Gann My album has an all accoustic band on it apart from Guitar and steel.... and I know you have it ? I think that the reason steel hasn"t made it into the list of standard jazz instruments is because nobody has actually taken it there yet. . Most players these days learn E9 first and then C6 . Then they get into the merry-go ruond of making money versus making music .I think that jazz is music that you have to live ,eat and breathe. The jazz players I know don't play any other kind of music and they suffer financially. It's tough for them , and how many of them ever really make it in the jazz world? Few...What we need is some guy about 16 yrs old with talent to totally dedicate his life to playing jazz on steel and have the charisma to make it . Who would ever have have thought the vibes would ever become what they are in jazz ...... somebody had to do it. .In june I am taking a whole year off to play jazz.... wish me luck .. www.ricknelson.workzsites.com
John McGann
Member

From: Boston, Massachusetts, USA

posted 25 April 2005 07:01 AM     profile     
I sure do, excellent CD, my earlier post is probably dated before you even went into the studio (old thread!).

Zappa called jazz "the soundtrack of poverty" and for most of us, that's too true! In the good ol' USA, birthplace of the music, people generally know nothing about this style, and just reject it out of hand. I actually heard a quote: "JAZZ? That's where no one knows the melody, and they just play whatever they want!!" In Europe and a few other places like Japan, people seem generally more exposed/educated to a variety of different music, and lots of jazz musicians are revered there and unknown here.

I know the first time I heard a jazz recording, I had no idea what was going on, and that's what drew me to it. I had to learn a few things before I could really appreciate it...just like anything else: don't you enjoy baseball more when you understand what the heck everyone is doing out there?

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http://www.johnmcgann.com
Info for musicians, transcribers, technique tips and fun stuff. Joaquin Murphey transcription book, Rhythm Tuneup DVD and more...


David L. Donald
Member

From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

posted 25 April 2005 07:33 AM     profile     
John, very well put.

Richard, good luck with the harmonic sabbatical!

Rick Schmidt
Member

From: Carlsbad, CA. USA

posted 25 April 2005 09:15 AM     profile     
John...in Europe and Japan they even rever great unknown country artists. We live in a Walmart/McDonalds cultural void for the most part here in the U.S....Anybody who's played music in either of those places knows what I'm talking about. I am really proud that jazz AND country were born here though! I'm just getting tired of playing "Sweet Home Alabama" when I'm hearing "Lush Life" in my head.
Jonathan Gregg
Member

From: New York City

posted 25 April 2005 12:41 PM     profile     
Interesting point -- I guess the lower pitch of the C6 makes it easier to choke the notes with a heavier bar.

My good friend and teacher Russ Wever uses a light bar (smaller too) and sounds great on jazzy stuff.

At the risk of repeating myself, I think the steel's visibility in jazz would be greatly enhanced if more of the world-class guys we are talking about came to New York once in a while. This is one of the few places where the number of jazz musicians reaches the critical mass necessary for the creation of new currents -- plus it's a place with a lot of record and media companies.

One reason Robert Randolph is so well known is that he's from here. A lot of people from this area -- including a lot of jazz players -- have probably never heard another steel player, much less played with one, and certainly no one of the caliber of Jernigan or Emmons.

These kinds of cross-pollinations don't happen in a vacuum. There is no doubt that more than a few steelers are top-flight jazz players. But they need to be heard by people other than PSG conventiongoers.

I hope some day to fill that gap, but don't hold your breath...

Tim Kauffroath
Member

From: Pennsylvania, USA

posted 18 April 2006 01:25 PM     profile     
I don't think I saw Steve Palousek's name mentioned in this post but it seems I've heard some good jazz out of him.

I've been sitting in with some pretty good jazz men here in Central pennsylvania and they all are turned on to the steel.(of course you get the question "Who's the guy up there with the Sofa?"

As far as sound, I've been shooting for a good "trumpet" voice -using an old Emmons Push-Pull, single coils through tube Fender Vibrosonic Reverb.

Three areas of discipline -learn to read music/and chord charts and apply it to steel and learn the scales and how they relate to the chords, third learn to transcribe solos note for note(from any instrument). I no longer sleep nights!

Bill Hatcher
Member

From: Atlanta Ga. USA

posted 18 April 2006 01:57 PM     profile     
There are some vintage cuts by Maurice Anderson that for me represent very nice jazz on the pedal steel.
David Doggett
Member

From: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA

posted 18 April 2006 04:34 PM     profile     
Wow, an old thread coming to life for the third time. I agree we are all searching for good jazz tone. Bill Stafford on his 14-string uni has some of the best jazz tone I have heard. A uni is a very good choice for jazz - you have the whole spectrum of 6th neck and 9th neck chords. And you can get mellow on the low strings. More than piano, I hear jazz steel as a cross between vibraphone, organ and guitar tones. Also, fusion and jazz-rock have opened up the whole spectrum of fuzz and distortion for jazz steel. The mellow archtop smooth jazz tone is not the only guitar tone out there for jazz.

Too minimize the whinyness, it helps to keep your picking hand about an octave above where your bar is. The manufacturers could help if they had a removable plate in the pickup area that would allow an optional neck pickup. Also, it would be nice to be able to angle the pickup away from the bridge on the high strings, and toward the bridge on the low strings. That would help us in dialing in a thick tone on the high strings, but maintain definition on the low strings.

I am slowly beginning to play some jazz. One of my bands, the Philadelphia Blues Messengers will be playing in the West Oak Lane Jazz Festival this June in Northwest Philly (http://www.westoaklanefestival.com/index.htm). We will be backing veteran avant garde saxist and flutist, Byard Lancaster, and Harold Smith, a drummer and vocalist who also plays didgerido and conch shells. We come into jazz from the direction of blues and Afro-primitive. There are many kinds of jazz. Big band, swing, standards, and bebob are only parts of the spectrum.

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Student of the Steel: Zum uni, Fender tube amps, squareneck and roundneck resos, tenor sax, keyboards

[This message was edited by David Doggett on 18 April 2006 at 05:07 PM.]

Gordy Hall
Member

From: Fairfax, CA.

posted 18 April 2006 06:20 PM     profile     
I would suggest you check out "Kundalini Jukebox' at http://www.kundaliniboombox.com/main.html

Robert Powell plays occasional pedal steel as well as 6-string, and the band, with Kit Walker, Celso Alberti, and Gary Brown, have heavy heavy jazz roots.

You wanbt cutting edge jazz with pedal steel, this is it.

Rick Schmidt
Member

From: Carlsbad, CA. USA

posted 18 April 2006 08:24 PM     profile     
It's all cool
b0b
Sysop

From: Cloverdale, California, USA

posted 19 April 2006 07:35 AM     profile     
oops. Sorry Jim. You're definitely right up there with the "heavyweights", IMO.

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Bobby Lee
-b0b- quasar@b0b.com
System Administrator
My Blog

Jim Cohen
Member

From: Philadelphia, PA

posted 19 April 2006 09:20 AM     profile     
Don't worry, b0b, I'm not insulted, even though you waited one full year to the day to notice the error of your ways and post your feeble apology.

But you still haven't explained what a "Bug Gun" is!


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