But western swing is a country version of 30-50s jazz, a pre bebop western themed jazz with blues and fiddle music elements. The steel came up bigger as a replacement for horn players gone off to the war. One cat could do the work of 3-4.
And Herb Steiner and Tom Morrell do it great too.

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 11 June 2003 at 06:22 AM.]

Not all swing music is written in 4/4 time, much of it is written in 2/2 time, sometimes 6/8 or 12/8, so forget about triplets, straight eights, etc. for now. Sometimes a particular song can be found in 4/4 time in one book and 2/2 time in another. Especially faster songs. I will try to get it across without using time signatures. For the people who know what swing is, but have come up with different numbers, we are sometimes talking about the same thing but using different time bases.

Forget about specific components of the rhythm section such as the ride cymbal, snare, hihat etc. the swing thing is a whole rhythm section approach. Sometimes different instruments (all working together) additively make the swing rhythm. Also, the swing notes are not the only ones played, other notes are added that either compliment or contrast the swing feel.

If this crazy on-line medium was equipped for sound, I could demonstrate this swing thing without any misunderstanding, but it is not so I will do the best I can. My Harpers Dictionary of Music is no help here, it defines swing as: A style of jazz popular in the 1930 s so named by Duke Ellington.

I have discussed this with a few other professional musicians, and I have analyzed the swing feel feature of a couple of drum machines and professional sequencing packages. The main thing I found in common with ALL of these was the two major subdivisions of the beat was first on the beat and second between the second third and the third quarter of the beat. What note we are talking about depends on what note gets a beat. Could be an eighth, quater, dotted eighth, etc..

Without any musical jargon do the following:

Start tapping your feet in a steady, walking speed beat. Be sure the beat is steady.
Count 1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4 etc. while tapping your foot, on all the beats that your foot is tapping.
Now keeping the 1,2,3,4 in the same place, insert the word and in between them. You should be saying 1,&,2,&,3,&,4,&etc. This is two sub-divisions per beat.
Now insert syllables between them so that your foot is still tapping the 1,2,3,4, but you are counting 1,E,&,a,2,E,&,a,3,E,&,a,4,E&,a,etc. It should sound a little like an old fashioned wrist watch. You now have 4 subdivisions to the beat.
If you keep the placement of all the notes the same, and accent the 1 a,2 a,3 a,4 a, you get a beat that is the upper limit of the swing.
If you now count 1,a,ly,2,a,ly,3,a,ly,4,a,ly etc. you have three subdivisions to the beat.
By accenting the 1 ly,2 ly,3 ly,4, ly you have the lower limit of swing.
It is between the two examples. How much in between depends on the song and the people playing the song.

Swing is a very useful form of "short hand" notation. Swing notation grew out of early American music and is widely used by jazz musicians. When "Swing" is indicated, the reader converts the first eighth note/rest (of each quarter note value) into two tied triplet eighth notes/rests and the second eighth note/rest into a single eighth note triplet. Only eighth notes (and eighth rests) are read differently in "swing", all other time values remain unchanged.

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Tim Harr - Carter D-10 8 & 9 - Troy Cook Jr Band ~ Stardust Nashville Recording Artist

[This message was edited by Tim Harr on 12 June 2003 at 09:29 AM.]

Swing seems to be more vital, more witty, and more adventurous. There are lots of twists and turns in the music and especially in the lyrics. (Just because you're not singing doesn't mean you shouldn't know what the song is about-otherwise you're just playing ignorant!) Modern Country tends to be introspective and subdued in comparison, both in the lyrics and the playing. (Lots of the better swing material is filled with layers of humor-both musical and lyrical-don't hear that on the radio these days. It's almost always about getting or losing "love," baby.) The musicianship is still outstanding but it's restrained-even uptempo numbers are missing a feeling of sponteaity.

David, Back in those days, I did some home wire recordings,(can anyone remember them), then waxed some records, all gone now. Even they were deteriated.