Now, we ALL take gigs that we dont like to take.. "I'm just here for the money" type gigs.. Many of us at times will play with what I'll just call "less experienced" bands and musicians.

I am NOT being negative, I am just going to tell it like it is from MY perspective.

I LOVE playing with musicians/bands that make me sweat.. Wondering, 'wow can I CUT it with these guys'?..
I love the challenge of BARELY being able to "keep up"...

I personally KNOW people.. friends of mine.. GOOD players ,that are the opposite.. They prefer musicianship a "step down" from thier own.

One actually told me HE enjoyed being the focal point.
Another was ALWAYS with bands below his caliber of playing ability. The gigs were there I guess, and he did not want the "challenge" of better players...

quote:

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Can you give it all you got, all the time, even if the music is not good?

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With less experienced players I have to work harder to make things blend.

I usually find myself being the most experienced musician in the band, and wish the situation was the opposite.

It's difficult to motivate yourself to do better when others are telling you, "wow, you played great!", even if you know that is far from the truth.

They offered me $1200 for the week to come play with them simply because the acoustic guitar really carried the groove on most of the show and they had no one in their circle of players who could read the book.

So in order to make the money and pay my bills and fix the timing chain in my car and a hundred other things that keep the family going I went and did it. I purposefully did not walk in there and take over and tell them what to do and what not to do. I was nice and friendly and told them I appreciated them "inviting" me to be a part of the show. I let the musical director run the rehearsal and the performances. After the first performance, the audience aplauded like they were at a Broadway show in NY. The rest of the week was fine. The show finished, I was handed a check and invited back for the next show.

There was probably a time when I was young and stupid and egocentric and such that I could not have sat there and listened to what those kids were trying to do without saying something acerbic or copping an attitude in order to vent for such a musician as I to have to stoop so low as to play with such "unwashed instrument holders".

I just think back on all the times where some fine musician put up with ME and all the edges are immediately knocked off.

quote:

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Fortunately I'm in a situation right now where I'm the "hack" and man it's a lot of fun

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I'm often the most experienced in the music BUSINESS and since the early '70's it seems that I've picked up a lot of slack for many of the artists that I have played with, whether it's my understanding of sound systems, staging, publicity, marketing, etc., or just how to write, learn and play music together. The flip side of this is that I'm often surrounded by incredible players that give me an opportunity to turn it up a notch as a player myself and get outside the PSG box altogether.

No matter how hard I try, it's pretty hard to play Bud's Bounce well with a band that doesn't understand how it's done, but on the other hand, I can play Shenandoah or Amazing Grace with just about ANYONE and it will sound like beautiful music to all concerned.

[This message was edited by Dave Grafe on 19 July 2005 at 11:33 AM.]

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It's all on 12, who needs 20!

quote:

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I love the challenge of BARELY being able to "keep up"...

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I've worked with more than my share of amateurs. Sure, it's better when the band carries you along with it, more fun, better music. But for some reason--well, this one band in Tulsa (The Honky Dreads!) I was the musician of the outfit. It has its own charm. I still work with amateurs doing recording; it gives me a chance to take something fresh and give it a good sound.

Both aspects are good. With other pros, tho, you get to be up on the big stage.
Nothing better.

We lost out regular lead player, and hired what I thought was just a "groupie" who had told us he played guitar and really loved our sound. When he first started, he was clueless. I wound up overplaying (which I was used to, since I played so much as the only lead instrument), and I was doing about 90% of the lead work. The first few months were frustrating for him, as he couldn't contribute much to our sound. One night, he said rather matter-of-factly..."You sure play a lot!" I asked him exactly what he meant, and he said..."You don't leave any holes for me to fill! When are you going to let me play some?" I told him, in good natured fashion..."We have a certain sound I'm trying to maintain, so when what you're doing fits as well as what I'm doing, I'll gladly back off and let you play."

Fast forward almost a year, and he was playing his socks off. He got so good at what we were doing, I became the one who couldn't find any holes! We still play together sometimes, and when we do, it's a very good-natured fight for who does what. (He does some really fine lead lead work.)

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SHO~BUDS, Steelkings,
Fender guitars,
Hilton pedals, Preston
covers, and Taylor(Tut, that is)Resos.
"still alive and well"

There are some good players,but they are very spread out, and are pretty rare here in the sticks.

Probably easier to find in Buffalo,Rochester Syracuse..

Our friends in Texas,California, the cities of the Pacific Northwest, and perhaps other more metropolitan areas may not realize how hard it is to get with a bunch of truly superior players, when you usually have to just take what you can get.

Over many years I have found geography plays a HUGE role in the ability level of musicians.. I guess the guys that are really skilled,tend to be where the gigs are. That has been my experience.

By the way,, I can see by the intelligent and well thought out responses of our friends that NO steel player "looks down" on guys that may not be great players.

I've worked with people who were not highly skilled, but who nevertheless, were good enough to get the job done. In that situation, I do the best I can, and if they let me, give them pointers and try to help them improve.

But there are people out there who have no more business attempting to make music, than any of us do attempting to do brain surgury.

Thats where I rate my skill level... I guess I would be fairly happy if all my musical endevours were with folks in this category.

I like to think when I play with a group of folks just a notch above this level, that I can rise to that level at least for a short time.

However, I feel that if I am with players a step or two BELOW, I can't rise above it, and usually play at this lesser level...

I am not sure if any of this makes sense, but I relate to what the guys who talked about the "weakest link" were saying. For whatever reason, the weaker the ensemble, the weaker I am...

I feel inept with a poor band.. I play BADLY....Amatuerish..

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Jim.Hall
MSA D12 3&4 several 6 string Guitars,2 Fiddles and a Kazoo.

[This message was edited by retcop88 on 20 July 2005 at 06:06 AM.]

I was in a print shop on some non-music related matter, when this woman who must have weighed about 300 pounds (not hat I’m in a position to pass judgment on such matters) walked in and announced to everybody there that she had a job singing. I asked her what kind of music, and she said country, so I asked who was playing steel for her. She answered that she didn’t have a steel player and asked me if I played, and I told her I did.

She immediately wanted to hire me, but I told her that I wouldn’t play for less than $100 a night (New Years Eve notwithstanding, I never made that much in my life.) She assured me that the money would be no problem, and took my card. I assumed that I’d never see or hear from her again.

Shortly afterwards, I got a call from a guy who said he had a gig at a club in Hollywood (which is very close to where I was living at the time) and needed a steel player, and would I mind rehearsing with the band once or twice before the gig? I asked if I could do so with just a mandolin since they are so much easier to carry around and need no set up. He agreed.

So I got to the rehearsal and found a bunch of rank amateurs who didn’t know that they were all supposed to play the same chord at the same time, and had no concept of keeping a steady rhythm. I felt like a total jerk, but I had no choice but to tell them they were not good enough to do gigs, and I was not interested in playing with them.

2 or 3 weeks later, I got a phone call from my former picking partner Harry Barnett, a fine guitarist I’ve gigged with many times in 2 different bands. Harry told me he had a gig in Hollywood, very close to my house, and invited me to come.

So I walked into the club, and here is the incompetent band, with the lady from the print shop, making total fools of themselves, and poor Harry trying to make the best of the situation, and looking like he’s prefer to be being burned at the stake or having red hot needles thrust under his fingernails.

Harry called me up to the stage, where we stood side by side, and he fretted the guitar while I picked it. Of coursed neither of us knew what the other was going to do, so it was a train wreck, but it was still better than what the others were doing.

"Yer only as strong as your weakest link"

Then there's the bands/players who just don't understand groove or feel, and playing is literally a chore. No way to play to your best. I can sometimes sympathize with players who were less than kind in my formative years...

Interestingly, some of the least sophisticated players seem to have the most heart and desire, and some of the monster technicians have the jaded dried-up thing going on. Drive and ambition can certainly be inspiring. It's also fascinating to me that some of the "hackier" bands seem to hustle up more gigs...

It can be rewarding from an ego standpoint to be the most seasoned player in a group, and just as intimidating to be the resident hack! As I always have, I still prefer to play whenever I can with people who challenge me and who push me to stretch my abilities and knowledge. The most attractive thing for me about playing music for a living is the limitless possibility for improvment, expansion, and growth. It's not a job where you'll ever know it all.

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Stop by the Steel Store at: www.markvanallen.com

[This message was edited by Mark van Allen on 24 July 2005 at 12:35 PM.]

I was sometimes surprised at the professionalism of some of those unknown bands, and I was taxed to keep up with them.

In summary, there are eons of undiscovered and unrecognized musicians out there who are great musicians and performers. The "Name on the Bus" is not always the criteria of success.

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www.genejones.com
The Road Traveled "From Then 'til Now"