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  Sneaky Pete's copedent and string gages! (Page 1)

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Author Topic:   Sneaky Pete's copedent and string gages!
Jim Sliff
Member

From: Hermosa Beach California, USA

posted 03 December 2005 08:00 PM     profile     
Anita was kind enough to send me this correction to what's been posted in the past. Pedals 1 and 2 were reversed, and pedal 1 has an additional pull on the 8th string that's been missing from the old records:

(copedent was here, but I deleted it - see below)

string gages are:

.015
.018
.020
.022
.030W
.034W
.038W
.049W

Now I can leave it to the theorists to ponder the whys and whats of the changes. I had most of mine set up the old way and working pretty well - this doesn't look drastically different, but it IS correct.

[This message was edited by Jim Sliff on 03 December 2005 at 08:02 PM.]


Edited to add - sorry, I deleted the copedent - I tried the UBB formatting and again have not been able to make it work. I have no clue how to fix this. 5 tries at this and it never works (FWIW UBB formatting rarely works on any other boards either. Why they don't just use html is beyond me). If anyone has a clue other than the notes in the help files (the tab commands with the brackets) please feel free to let me know, because those don't do anything at all.

I really would like to post it as several peple have been asking about it lately in emails, and I thought it might be interestng to discuss again because it IS unusual - I;ve heard it described as an abbreviated universal tuning.

[This message was edited by Jim Sliff on 03 December 2005 at 08:03 PM.]

[This message was edited by Jim Sliff on 03 December 2005 at 08:38 PM.]

[This message was edited by Jim Sliff on 03 December 2005 at 08:39 PM.]

[This message was edited by Jim Sliff on 03 December 2005 at 08:56 PM.]

[This message was edited by Jim Sliff on 03 December 2005 at 08:56 PM.]

Jim Sliff
Member

From: Hermosa Beach California, USA

posted 04 December 2005 07:12 AM     profile     
Bump - only to try to get some help posting the copedent. I've tried the "tab" commands in the help files, and it looks great on the screen - until II post it and go back to the message. Then the formatting is all fouled again.

Help!

Bill McCloskey
Member

From:

posted 04 December 2005 08:42 AM     profile     
I hope you get help. I'd love to see it.
Larry Bell
Member

From: Englewood, Florida

posted 04 December 2005 09:19 AM     profile     
Jim
Send it to me in whatever fmt you have
I'll post it for you and you can 'Edit' and see how it's done

larry@larrybell.org

------------------
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1984 Sho-Bud S/D-12 7x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps


Jim Sliff
Member

From: Hermosa Beach California, USA

posted 05 December 2005 08:10 PM     profile     
Just forwarded it to Larry
Larry Bell
Member

From: Englewood, Florida

posted 05 December 2005 09:34 PM     profile     
This is it

LK 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 RK
D# C# E D
B A# C# A# C#
G# A G
F# G# F A
D# E D
B C#
G# A G
F#

------------------
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1984 Sho-Bud S/D-12 7x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps


[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 05 December 2005 at 09:35 PM.]

Jim Sliff
Member

From: Hermosa Beach California, USA

posted 05 December 2005 10:19 PM     profile     
Weird - when I hit "edit on that post to see how it was formatted all the formatting fouled up - and yet it shows ok when posted.

So how can you tell when it will look right if it has to look wrong when you're making the post - and how do you know how "wrong" to make it and where?

b0b
Sysop

From: Cloverdale, California, USA

posted 05 December 2005 11:37 PM     profile     
http://b0b.com/tunings/stars.html#b6pk
Jim Sliff
Member

From: Hermosa Beach California, USA

posted 06 December 2005 05:20 AM     profile     
b)b, my whole point in posting was that that one is not correct - the first and second pedals are backwards; the first pedal also has a g+ pull on the 8th string. This info is from Anita, who sets up and tunes the thing for him on tour.
ebb
Member

From: nj

posted 06 December 2005 07:53 AM     profile     
so he plays emmons not day?
does anita play also?
b0b
Sysop

From: Cloverdale, California, USA

posted 06 December 2005 04:04 PM     profile     
Jim, if the chart on my web site is wrong I want to correct it. It looks the same to me as the one that Larry Bell posted.

I always use Notepad to create charts for posting, then cut and paste into the Forum message.

------------------
Bobby Lee
-b0b- quasar@b0b.com
System Administrator
My Blog

Jim Sliff
Member

From: Hermosa Beach California, USA

posted 06 December 2005 04:57 PM     profile     
"so he plays emmons not day?
does anita play also?"

huh?

He plays a B6 tuning, so I don't know how that applies.

No, Anita doesn't play, really, but she does work as "guitar tech".

b0b - I'll try the notepad method when I get some time. Every other method has resulted in a mess...

[This message was edited by Jim Sliff on 06 December 2005 at 04:57 PM.]

ebb
Member

From: nj

posted 06 December 2005 05:15 PM     profile     
his first 2 pedals are his corn pedals exactly as on e9 but a 4th below. so emmons has these arranged as A,B but jimmy day had them as B,A.

[This message was edited by ebb on 06 December 2005 at 05:17 PM.]

Dave Zirbel
Member

From: Sebastopol, CA USA

posted 07 December 2005 07:55 AM     profile     
If Pete could only have 5 pedals on his guitar, which ones do you think they would be in order for him to execute his licks the way he does, and to get his trademark sound that we know? When I saw him he didn't use all the pedals and played no pedals too.

DZ

Jim Sliff
Member

From: Hermosa Beach California, USA

posted 07 December 2005 08:18 AM     profile     
"his corn pedals exactly as on e9"

Translation? What the heck is a "corn" pedal??

Jim Sliff
Member

From: Hermosa Beach California, USA

posted 07 December 2005 08:20 AM     profile     
Dave - When I've seen him it's been the first 2 or 3, one or two in the center and the right knee. I don't recall much use of the pedals on the far right. On my setup I'm eliminating #9...only because I don't have the pedal and rod!
Dave Zirbel
Member

From: Sebastopol, CA USA

posted 07 December 2005 08:36 AM     profile     
You still need more rods?!

I remember him using a few in the middle too. I'm thinking of a condensed U8 tuning with 5, maybe 6 pedals and 2 knees. 8 or 9 pedals on one neck is too many for this simple guy!

DZ

Russ Tkac
Member

From: Waterford, Michigan, USA

posted 07 December 2005 08:40 AM     profile     
Jim,

His common pedals are 1&2 like on the E9. The same pulls but in B6. The copedent shows a "Day" setup. If you reverse pedals 1&2 it would be an "Emmons" set up on a std. E9 but tuned to B6. Hope that helps.

Russ

ebb
Member

From: nj

posted 07 December 2005 09:24 AM     profile     
	LKL	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	RKR
G+ F+ . A . . . G . . . .
E . . . . D+ . . F+ D+ . F+
C+ . . . D . . . . . C .
B . C+ . . . A+ . . . . D
G+ . . A . . . G . . . .
E . . . . . . . . F+ . .
C+ . . . D . . . . . C .
B . C+ . . . . . . . . .

here is the revised(day to emmons)b6 tuning translated to e . his first 2 pedals are the e9 pedals. his 5 and 6 are the same as c6s when translated to e.

[This message was edited by ebb on 07 December 2005 at 09:32 AM.]

Jim Sliff
Member

From: Hermosa Beach California, USA

posted 07 December 2005 09:29 AM     profile     
His first pedal doesn't affect the first string - and the LKL is in the wrong place. Something's wrong with that layout - same problem I've been having. Nothing seems to line up right.
Jim Sliff
Member

From: Hermosa Beach California, USA

posted 07 December 2005 09:58 AM     profile     
Russ - so 1&2 on an E9 are called "corn" pedals?

Odd term usage. Any idea where it came from?

Dave - yeah, still need one newer-type rod and pedal set.

[This message was edited by Jim Sliff on 07 December 2005 at 10:01 AM.]

Russ Tkac
Member

From: Waterford, Michigan, USA

posted 07 December 2005 10:06 AM     profile     
It think he just means "common" to E9 and Sneaky's B6. If everyone has the pulls they are common to all.

Is this the setup?

	LKL	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	RKR
D+ C+ . E . . . D . . . .
B . . . . A+ . . C+ A+ . C+
G+ . . . A . . . . . G .
F+ . G+ . . . F . . . . A
D+ . . E . . . D . . . .
B . . . . . . . . C+ . .
G+ . . . A . . . . . G .
F+ . G+ . . . . . . . . .

[This message was edited by Russ Tkac on 07 December 2005 at 10:15 AM.]

ebb
Member

From: nj

posted 07 December 2005 10:23 AM     profile     
corn. probably derived from corney or he haw.
you guys need get some diamond horse shoe pinky rings and learn the code. for instance did you know that rosewood is a code word for mica.
b0b
Sysop

From: Cloverdale, California, USA

posted 07 December 2005 10:34 AM     profile     
Jim, are you using a Mac?
Russ Tkac
Member

From: Waterford, Michigan, USA

posted 07 December 2005 11:44 AM     profile     
Sorry. Without my readers corn looked like com. By the way...who's Mica?

[This message was edited by Russ Tkac on 07 December 2005 at 11:45 AM.]

Jim Sliff
Member

From: Hermosa Beach California, USA

posted 07 December 2005 01:39 PM     profile     
I think that one looks right - I don't have my notes with me.

b0b - I use a Mac at home...PC at the office...whatever I can find when traveling!

Charlie McDonald
Member

From: Lubbock, Texas, USA

posted 07 December 2005 02:20 PM     profile     
It does say corn.
Maybe for Mica he meant Mac?
I'm so comfused....
Jim Sliff
Member

From: Hermosa Beach California, USA

posted 07 December 2005 05:16 PM     profile     
All this time I assumed "mica" was short for formica.
ebb
Member

From: nj

posted 07 December 2005 05:57 PM     profile     
you guys are hysteristerical. you must be copedant on each other for these cabinet drops. you really had me wound up here when i'm a 20 plain type of guy. where do you put your x,z and pf levers?
Anita Kleinow
Member

From: San Francisco,California, USA

posted 07 December 2005 07:09 PM     profile     
Sorry I've been spying on you all, but you guys are funny! Hi Russ! Russ is correct. That is the correct copedant. Perfect!
Charles Dempsey
Member

From: The Cradle of the Stars.

posted 07 December 2005 07:24 PM     profile     
The problem when doing tabs and copedants is that you need to use a monospace font. NotePad and BbEdit use a monospace font by default. If you're using Word change your font to Courier.

The result will still be slightly fouled up (I don't know why), but a lot easier to correct.

Charlie

Jon Zimmerman
Member

From: California, USA

posted 07 December 2005 07:29 PM     profile     
..OHH,
PULL-EASE! I'm Corn-fuzed too...
..Thanks to Jim, Russ and Anita, though. Interesting copedant, like Ralph Mooneys--different.
Steve Zinno
Member

From: Spring City, Pennsylvania, USA

posted 07 December 2005 07:31 PM     profile     
Now, I'm not a "6" player, but to me Pete's copedent looks like kind of a "pedals down" E9 without the chromatic strings up top. Pedals 1 & 2 are the obvious ones, but there's a couple of places to get the flat 7th (A) and the 9 (C#) close by as well. You get the added bonus of still being able to think of the same fret positions as E9 (i.e., 3rd fret is G with pedals down). Incredibly versatile setup, and the sound of those low pulls is just tremendous. Genius, really, and a great way to get around the string popping tendencies on the old Fenders. I love all his playing with the "mellow mafia" back in the 70's (Browne,Ronstadt,et al).

------------------
steve z.

[This message was edited by Steve Zinno on 07 December 2005 at 07:38 PM.]

Russ Tkac
Member

From: Waterford, Michigan, USA

posted 07 December 2005 08:09 PM     profile     
"where do you put your x,z and pf levers?" -Ebb

You really don't want to know!

Jim Sliff
Member

From: Hermosa Beach California, USA

posted 07 December 2005 08:47 PM     profile     
Thanks Russ for finally getting it posted. I apologize for the long drawn-out process, but there's a heck of a learning curve to posting copedents. We DID learn that the one everyone has been looking at for some time was incorrect - pedals 1 and 2 reversed and a missing change on pedal 1. Glad it's finally correct - now I can finish my "project" the right way.

BTW, Pete wouldn't have had the string breakage problems. He plays a guitar that uses the early changer and pickup(s) but a roller bridge and nut. A factory add-on or field mod according to Jody.

Donny Hinson
Member

From: Balto., Md. U.S.A.

posted 08 December 2005 06:09 AM     profile     
quote:
All this time I assumed "mica" was short for formica.


Funny, all this time, I thought "Mica" was the marshall on the old TV show "The Rifleman"!

[This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 08 December 2005 at 06:10 AM.]

jim milewski
Member

From: stowe, vermont

posted 08 December 2005 06:55 AM     profile     
I think it was Micah, old testament minor prophet, (the popular tuning back then), but the riflemans gunstock was not mica, but solid mahogany with one lever
Anita Kleinow
Member

From: San Francisco,California, USA

posted 08 December 2005 02:08 PM     profile     
Heeehhaaha! You guys are too funny! :P
ebb
Member

From: nj

posted 08 December 2005 08:12 PM     profile     
i play this tuning, the first 8 pedals only, on my 400 and it is exactly like al marcus and buddy emmons have been describing as a universal alternative to the knee lock version u12 that jeff newman made famous. with the string guages used here there is no reason to have the roller bridge and nut and i personally think the solid versions sound better because they transmit more vibrations to the body. the other completely unexpected bonus to this tuning is the split on the second string for pedals 7 and 8 is perfectly in tune. i was also surprised to see that the correction to what we thought the copedant was from tom bradshaw's old article was exactly what i did differently from that reference.
viva la differance!
Russ Tkac
Member

From: Waterford, Michigan, USA

posted 09 December 2005 05:14 AM     profile     
Ebb,

Any sound clips? I'd like to hear it.

Russ


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