On C6, unless I'm doing a chord solo, I stay away from the pedals and knee levers. Too much to think about (unlike E9). Then I start by visualizing the note patterns of the chords, as they go by. That way I don't have to know what the note is, specifically, only that it fits that chord. And again, I'm only thinking of the top 6 or 7 strings and the shapes I'm using are usually the strings across the fret (like A-7 on the 12th fret), and the shapes of pedals 5 and 6, individually and combined. Pedal 5 being the notes across the fret and drop down a fret on the 5th string. Pedal 6, strings 5,4,3 with 2 up a fret and 6 down a fret. Pedals 5 and 6 together, strings 5,6 down a fret, up one to 4 and 3, up again to 2 and 1. That sort of stuff.

"or do you reach every note"

Instead of every note, I prefer to concentrate on the important ones, the 3rd and 7th, especially if they are the leading tones in dominant chords. I used to work with a jazz violinist who seemed to approach every solo like a video game. A chord would pop it's head up and he would annialate it with notes.

There's going to be a lot of suggestions after this post, so i'll just say, it's not a bad idea to find the melody, to start with, and then simply embellish it a bit.

[This message was edited by chas smith on 09 January 2006 at 12:27 PM.]

Did that make sense to anyone?

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Dave Wren
'95Carter S12-E9/B6,7X7; Twin Session 500s; Hilton Pedal; Black Box
www.ameechapman.com

Aslo, there are no secret note... they are just 12 and they can be foind on half of a neck's length on just one string. I've found it of great help to try to transpose my humming on just one string, it creates a musical-optical link or conciousness of the intervals from note to note.

Some of Aebersold's tracks can come in handy for back up to create humming inprovisation. They are of a nice quality and none of the hillbilly swing steelguitar geared material mostly seems to be.

My opinion only... not exact science realy... J-D.

[This message was edited by J D Sauser on 13 January 2006 at 12:22 AM.]

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Also, I find the pairings of fourths between strings 6 and 4, and strings 5 and 3 to be very useful - and P7 turns them into fifths. Using these requires careful blocking, as does the second example above.

[This message was edited by David Mason on 13 January 2006 at 02:53 AM.]

I've read about some of the masters of Jazz, Coltrane comes to mind. He spent many long hours studing classical music from books, then trying to apply the concepts, scales and progressions in the context of Jazz. He wasn't the exception.

Mike B: "...Coltrane comes to mind. He spent many long hours studing classical music from books, then trying to apply the concepts..."
I agree Mike, but I think you just said it yourself. These were musical geniuses who already had developed the capability to play what ever was on their mind (Improvising)... That some seek more brain food and try to analize and understand other musical idioms which were aparantly not their own to find ways to include them into their musicla brain storming is an other thing, I think. Their language was Jazz and they could spell it for-and-back-wards.
Now how authentic do sound most classical music people who try to play blues... even with all their theoretical knowledge??

Guys, I am not trying to be more right about this than anybody else and it is a highly debatable issue (just like the use of tablature for beginners, IMO), so it's just my opinion and it's the only way I have found I could progress with that I would find satisfying for myself. Other approaches may work for others but I just can't figure out how.

Maybe we needed to start a thread called "Define improvisation"

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U12 Williams keyless 400
Evans SE 150, Nashville 112, Line 6 pod xt

Second he provides wonderful scale exercises, mode excerises across many standard changes.

The closest he comes to a "System" is in his scale syllabis which I find invaluable.

You can certainly teach Jazz. Whether in schools or by one musician handing it down to another musician, it always has been taught. What you mean to say is that you can't teach someone to be brilliant improvisor - i.e. creative. You can't teach them to be a Sonny Rollins.

But you can teach them the basics so that they can play jazz adequately, can make good side men, and allow them to jam with other musicians. And that is where everyone needs to start.

But, for the same reason that very few can learn a foreign language without an accent, many will never sound fluent in their improvised compositions.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1984 Sho-Bud S/D-12 7x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

quote:

---

When a tune like "Airegin"
is changing the tone centers often

---

I looked at the changes to Airegin. I assume when you talk about "changing the tone centers", you are referring to the runs of ii-V's. It's in the key of Fm/Ab and the consecutive ii-V's are Dm7-G7-Cmaj7,C#m7-F#7-Bmaj7,Cm7-F7-Bbmaj7. Each of these is clearly a tonal/key center. This is pretty similar to the bridge in Cherokee, which I've played many times. The approach I would take for these changes of tonal centers is to first determine how you are going to handle the Dm7-G7. This tonal center is C, so I suggest you consider playing lines off the 5th and 7th fret. Next is the C#m7-F#7. This tonal center is B, so you just go one fret lower and play similar lines. Next is Cm7-F7, again, one fret lower. That's basically it. If you want another position to play the Dm7-G7 out of, try frets 12 and 14, but you may choose to use pedal 6 on the 14th fret.

Not sure whether that's true or not, but if it's not, I feel pretty confident that the right note is only one fret away and someone will consider it 'tension and release' or 'a brilliant resolution'.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1984 Sho-Bud S/D-12 7x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

If you can locate the basic differences in the turn arounds
and their placment in the arrangment,
then it is just a question of applying Jeff's point
about half stop tonal center flatting.

It is a hip tune because of these variations.
and done at fast speed they fly past you.
If you are soloing it can be a simple as
droping an arpegio of 3 notes
down a half step at the right time.
or up 1 or 3 frets if you like.

Best bet keep it simple, but adventurous
if you know where to come back to.
This is not a contradiction.
1 note that sets up an " out " tension followed by
a centered release of that can be quite hip
yet quite adventurous too.

I don't know this Generica method,
but being directed to a scalar position
that will work for most of a jazz tune is
not a bad place to start from.
But it shouldn't be considered more than a
starting place for an improv.

Another thing with jazz...
don't let a bad improv ruin the NEXT improv.
Some nights youz'on, some nights youz'ain't!

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 18 January 2006 at 07:56 AM.]

That Jazz has a theoretical print.. or matrix, that can be described by scales, I don't object. But these are not what created the "language" as you so apropriately called it. It's the creativity, history (back ground and progress) that created a sertain matrix, IMO.

Anyway, this is how it works for "me", and like most, it is hard for me to imagine how it would work otherwise... even for others.

I play E9 and C6 equally. Send me an e-mail when you are coming to New York and we can try to get together. My e-mail address is jr.lampert@verizon.net

Jeff

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Jeff's Jazz

[This message was edited by Jeff Lampert on 19 January 2006 at 10:19 AM.]