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  Would Jerry Garcia be welcome here? (Page 2)

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Author Topic:   Would Jerry Garcia be welcome here?
Kevin Hatton
Member

From: Amherst, N.Y.

posted 11 January 2006 01:16 PM     profile     
Bobby Lee, thats one of the best statements ever made on this forum. There are many technocrats and shredders who don't understand this simple concept. Technical excellence has and will never over ride artistic interpetation. Garcia was an artist.
Jelle Biel
Member

From: the netherlands

posted 11 January 2006 01:26 PM     profile     
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.


Passing
Jerry Garcia died on August 9, 1995 of heart trouble exacerbated by sleep apnea. Garcia, who struggled with drug addiction and sleep apnea for much of his adult life, was staying at the Serenity Knolls drug rehabilitation center in Forest Knolls, CA at the time. On his passing, he was honored by President Clinton as being "an American icon." Memorial services were held in Golden Gate Park on August 13, 1995. Along with the band members, his family and friends, thousands of fans were present, many singing and playing in drum circles.

Career with the Grateful Dead
On the Grateful Dead’s first, self-titled LP, Jerry’s guitar work displayed the speed of the fingers of his left hand and also a great deal of musical energy, but it was also clear that he had not yet developed a broad range of guitar-playing concepts. A lot of the playing is repetitive, relying on a few rock and blues licks and clichés. However, this soon changed as he mastered the techniques and styles of his key influences, and put in more time as a jamming musician and recording artist. Before long Jerry was able to play with intent, flexibility, and control – as well as high energy.

Jerry Garcia's mature guitar playing melded elements from the various kinds of music that had enthralled him. Echoes of "hillbilly" and bluegrass playing (such as Arthur Smith and Doc Watson) could be heard. But the "roots music" that sits behind hillbilly and bluegrass had its influence, too, and melodic riffs from Celtic fiddle jigs can be distinguished. There was also early rock (like Lonnie Mack, James Burton and Chuck Berry), contemporary blues (such as Freddie King), country & western (such as Roy Nichols and Don Rich), and jazz (like Charlie Christian) to be heard in Jerry's style. Don Rich was the sparkling country guitar player in Buck Owens's "Buckaroos" band of the 1960s. But besides Rich's style, both Jerry's pedal steel guitar playing (on Grateful Dead records and others) and his standard electric guitar work, were influenced by another of Owens's Buckaroos of that time, pedal-steel player Tom Blumley.

Jerry's style varied somewhat according to the song or instrumental he was contributing to. His playing had a number of so-called "signatures" and, in his work through the years with the Grateful Dead, one of these was lead lines making much use of rhythmic triplets (examples include the songs "Good Morning Little School Girl," "New Speedway Boogie," "Brokedown Palace," "Deal," "Loser," "Truckin'," "That's It For The Other One," "U.S. Blues," "Sugaree," and "Don't Ease Me In").

Young people were attracted to Jerry not only because of his talent and his tendency to good cheer and general goodwill, but for his obvious intelligence, libertarian sort of attitude, and willingness to speak his mind. Though he was widely regarded as a kind of guru figure in the San Francisco psychedelic scene, Jerry couldn’t take the role seriously himself.

From 1965 to 1995, the Grateful Dead toured almost constantly, developing a fan base known as deadheads, renowned for their intensity and devotion. Some fans dedicated their lives to the band, following the Grateful Dead from concert to concert, making a living by selling handmade goods, arts, crafts and other items in the parking lots of venues before the shows. It was no secret that drugs, especially psychedelics, were condoned in this scene. Jerry’s tendency to use hard, addictive drugs was evident to those who knew him by the mid 1970s.

[This message was edited by Jelle Biel on 11 January 2006 at 01:35 PM.]

Jeff Lampert
Member

From: queens, new york city

posted 11 January 2006 01:28 PM     profile     
quote:
It's all about composition

b0b already quoted this, and I will as well.

quote:
Every steel player should rejoice because this is a perfect example of why you don't have to play as good as (fill in a pro name) to compose and play good music

Well that's the problem. No matter how hard it is to technically play well, it is several orders of magnitude more difficult to compose something that is musically interesting. Playing licks is not composition. The TYC solo is.

------------------
Jeff's Jazz

Terry Edwards
Member

From: Layton, UT

posted 11 January 2006 01:48 PM     profile     
Well Jeff, that reminds me of my dad's banjo playing.

I asked him once if he composed those licks in a song he was playing.

He said no, I just made them up!

Terry

David L. Donald
Member

From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

posted 11 January 2006 07:20 PM     profile     
Composition is, in the case of arrangment, the joining of licks
to create a logical whole.

i.e. a long line of licks taking you on a voyage in parallel
to the theme melody and it's emotional tangent.

Does the musical backing in counter or echoed melodic work support and augment
the front melody.

This is very admirably done by Garcia on TYC.
Added to the fact the melody is done in supurb harmonies,
this gave him an actually bigger chalenge to augment
and yet not step on the melodic work.

He also produced and mixed the song with CSNY blessing.

What we never hear here is someone noting
what steeler influences he has in this song. Seems "Tom Blumley" (sic)... is one in general.
But is that true on TYC?

Charlie McDonald
Member

From: Lubbock, Texas, USA

posted 12 January 2006 05:13 AM     profile     
RR didn't start to get real flack until a newspaper article proclaimed him as the preeminent steel player. It could happen to anybody.

Thanks for the reprise, Andy.
Thanks for the memories, Jerry.

Bob Carlucci
Member

From: Candor, New York, USA

posted 12 January 2006 08:02 AM     profile     
--------------------------------------------QUOTE------------------------------------
"Jerry's playing in TYC was not about technique and chops."
I"t's all about composition."

"He nailed it. It's timeless."


Terry you are a genious... THAT is what its all about,,,Jerry had music in his soul..

It came out through his voice, his guitar, banjo AND steel.. He would be VERY welcome here... his list of accomplishments stands like a beacon in the world of music.. by the way, I'll take Teach over Way to Survive ANY day...bob

Mark Lind-Hanson
Member

From: San Francisco, California, USA

posted 12 January 2006 08:20 AM     profile     
An answer for Mark VanA.-
From the looks of it, I think that person would/should best be prepared for all three!

Regardless how people feel about how "Garcia might not have deserved the acclaim for his steel playing" it's been said- over and over in these topics- by (dozens? of us)- if it had not been for him, we'd maybe not have been as attracted to this instrument to begin with. TYC is a great example of improvised composition, yeah, but I'm never gonna be someone who'd call Jerry the greatest steel player" if he wasn't (and he wasn't) inclined to think of himself as that great at it, himself.
It was one sector of his growth as an all-around musician, and an important one, I think, but it was not the summa of his work!
(as people are also so inclined to re-referring to evidence of)
FOr my money, i like a LOT of other things he did with it (esp the first Graham Nash solo album) better than that particular track. And there are a LOT of great players who came before and after him. But for what he and Cage did to open up the instrument to the imagination of those here who were (basically) into rock and roll, I don't think anyone can slight him- UNLESS they were prejudiced that way to begin with.

b0b
Sysop

From: Cloverdale, California, USA

posted 12 January 2006 08:52 AM     profile     
Tom Blumley?
David L. Donald
Member

From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

posted 12 January 2006 08:58 AM     profile     
(sic)
Kevin Hatton
Member

From: Amherst, N.Y.

posted 12 January 2006 11:37 AM     profile     
Bob, I think thats Tom BRUMLEY"S Polish cousin. He played a Sho-Budski guitar from what I understand.

[This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 12 January 2006 at 11:38 AM.]

Jim West
Member

From: Vista,CA

posted 12 January 2006 03:00 PM     profile     
Jerry Garcia himself most likely would have been the first to admit that he was not a great or even good steel player and probably winced when people told him he was because of TYC. But what JG did with that song will live on for many more years because it was NOT the technical aspects of his playing on that song that made it work but his artistic approach. There are highly technical players out there that know every chord position and every lick there is but could not give TYC the treatment that Jerry Garcia did that day. He did something that many musicians would love to do, play something that will be remembered for many years to come.
Chris Erbacher
Member

From: Sausalito, California, USA

posted 12 January 2006 05:53 PM     profile     
amen jim
Kevin Hatton
Member

From: Amherst, N.Y.

posted 12 January 2006 06:39 PM     profile     
You got it Jim.
Terry Edwards
Member

From: Layton, UT

posted 12 January 2006 07:16 PM     profile     
quote:
.... All the time JC was tearing up the 5 string(dont forget the missing digit!),he was looking at my spare steel sitting in the corner.

Mike Cass, I know some folks think Jerrry Garcia is God, but let's not confuse JC with JG. I don't think JC played a five string!


Terry

(sorry b0b!) back on topic - quick!!!

Robert Porri
Member

From: Windsor, Connecticut, USA

posted 13 January 2006 06:26 AM     profile     
I sincerely hope that anyone who follows some obvious basic rules would be welcome on the Steel Guitar Forum. By posting this topic I assumed Mike was making a light hearted "joke" about the similar RR thread, but it's obvious that this one has taken on a life of it's own.

After reading this I have to say that the CSN album with Teach Your Children was one of the "oddball" albums I bought when I was a kid. I bought all the Beatles records, then onto the Rock guitar hero guys from Woodstock. To purchase the CSN album was a stretch for me as a kid, but there was something about the sound that I just liked. TYC was a part of what I liked. Unlike many of you though, I'm a little surprised that the PSG on the song never really "hit" me. I liked it and still do. But, it just sort of is in there blending with the song and it did not make me want to honor my father's request about taking up the PSG (like the guys on Hee Haw). No way!... at the time. I was just so into Rock Rock Rock. I'm so glad that something happened to me over 30 years later and I finally "got it". I'd love to see all the Hee Haw clips now! Wish my father could have been around longer to take to Steel shows and such.

Back to topic..... yes, JG would be welcome. I think JC would be too.

Bob P.

Barry Blackwood
Member

From: elk grove, CA

posted 13 January 2006 12:00 PM     profile     
"I'll take Teach over Way to Survive ANY day."

Bob (Carlucci,) I can't believe you said that.

[This message was edited by Barry Blackwood on 13 January 2006 at 12:04 PM.]

Damir Besic
Member

From: La Vergne,TN

posted 14 January 2006 07:44 AM     profile     
dang,I didn`t know that was him.I heard that song gazillion times.Sounds great to me.True West Coast style.I think if he wanted to pay more attention and spend more time with the steel he had a potential to be a great steel player.Just my due dinneros.

Db

------------------

"Promat"
~when tone matters~
http://hometown.aol.com/damirzanne2/PROMAT.html

Nate LaPointe
Member

From: Los Angeles, California, USA

posted 14 January 2006 04:07 PM     profile     
Like so many have already said, it's about the melody and the composition. There's a reason his songs became the soundtrack for so many people's lives over the years. In my writing and improvisation, I frequently ask myself, "what would jerry do?" (WWJD) Is there anything wrong with that? I don't think so, there's very few of us here that are going to come up with something completely new or create a new genre like Jerry did. For that, I am Grateful.

------------------
www.natelapointe.net

David L. Donald
Member

From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

posted 14 January 2006 07:09 PM     profile     
In their studio work they could be very clean concise,
and dare I say it,
Pop'y while still being country.

On their live work they could get as far into left field
as most any jazz solist. If not into true atonal and be bop territory.
And still bring it back into the song at the end, or another as was often the case.
No song list, one or the toehr would just yell out a song name, and off they went.

Ears WIDE open, very adventurous, no fear,
and their fans supported that, yet to be traveled, voyage at eacc concert.

If Jerry wanted to play another instrument on a song, then the normal choice, he just did.

I just re- ordered the CD's Working Mans Dead and the red skeleton album " Skull and Bones" again from Amazon.Ain't gonna see my vinal copies again I suspect.

Bill Llewellyn
Member

From: San Jose, CA

posted 15 January 2006 01:40 PM     profile     
quote:
Is it my imagination, or was he using the C pedal a whole bunch?
In TYC, I think he did. I made a stab at mimicking JG's playing on that tune and ended up needing the C pedal quite a bit.

------------------
Bill, steelin' since '99 | Steel page | MSA U12 | My music | Steelers' birthdays | Over 50?

Arty Passes
Member

From: Austin, TX

posted 15 January 2006 04:37 PM     profile     
It really says something that he elicits so many responses every time he comes up in a thread, and at least in this one, they've all been positive. When I first started playing, figuring out that lick was my first "Oh, that's how you do it" moment.
For more great examples of his simple yet tasteful style, check out the album "Workingman's Dead" "Dire Wolf" still gets me every time.
Would he be welcome?
Hell Yeah!!!

Arty

[This message was edited by Arty Passes on 15 January 2006 at 04:38 PM.]


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