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 Joaquin Murphy's Bigsby surfaces (Page 2)
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| Author | Topic: Joaquin Murphy's Bigsby surfaces |
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chas smith Member From: Encino, CA, USA |
posted 04 October 2006 08:04 PM
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WOW! |
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Jussi Huhtakangas Member From: Helsinki, Finland |
posted 04 October 2006 08:30 PM
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And oh, I might add that Retrofret gets my vote of the coolest and friendliest guitar store in the universe too, Steve and guys if you're reading this, hats off to you!!! |
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Lee Jeffriess Member From: Yucca Valley California |
posted 04 October 2006 10:14 PM
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Jussi,what was the difference with the pick up, could you see under the cover?. Lee |
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Jussi Huhtakangas Member From: Helsinki, Finland |
posted 05 October 2006 05:04 AM
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Yes, we took off the cover and it was a horseshoe magnet under it. The strings went under the upper part of the magnets and below the strings there were adjustable polepieces. Like I said, nothing like a regular Bigsby PU. |
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Mike Black Member From: New Mexico, USA |
posted 05 October 2006 07:30 AM
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Did they let you take pictures? |
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Jussi Huhtakangas Member From: Helsinki, Finland |
posted 05 October 2006 07:56 AM
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They would have, but I don't have a decent camera. Steve took a couple of pictures of me with the guitar and will email those to me. But really, you already have here pictures that says it all. I can't think of anything else I would've taken shots of, except for the PU's. But I'm sure we will be able to get those later too. |
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Jody Carver Member From: The Knight Of Fender Tweed~ Dodger Blue Forever |
posted 05 October 2006 02:02 PM
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Why are there pedals on this guitar?,when Joaquin had it made it had no pedals, at least I never saw any. Chas, Mike J. Mike Black?? |
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Michael Johnstone Member From: Sylmar,Ca. USA |
posted 05 October 2006 02:28 PM
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It seems like Murph told me that when he got rid of that guitar he gave it back to Paul Bigsby for another guitar which he didn't care for that much and then moved on to other brands of steels. My guess is that Paul Bigsby added pedals to it,removed the nameplate and sold it to someone else. He did stuff like that all the time I understand. He did say to me many times that although it was kinda dead at the 12th fret,this guitar was the best sounding steel he ever played - as long as you stayed off the 12th fret. He went to his grave regreting he ever let it go. I regret it as well because if he'd kept it for the rest of his life he probably would have left it to me.....I do have his tapered Bigsby bar w/a "J" engraved in the back end of it however and I think he's holding it in the "fringed shirt" photo.It's well dinged up but playable. I think I'll hang onto that one. |
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Jody Carver Member From: The Knight Of Fender Tweed~ Dodger Blue Forever |
posted 05 October 2006 02:30 PM
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Mike, Thank you for a well defined answer. Mike said... if he'd kept it for the rest of his life he probably would have left it to me.....and I couldn't think of anyone more deserving than you. [This message was edited by Jody Carver on 05 October 2006 at 03:08 PM.] |
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Lee Jeffriess Member From: Yucca Valley California |
posted 05 October 2006 10:45 PM
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Jussi, do you think the pick ups you saw, could be Epiphone horse shoes? Lee [This message was edited by Lee Jeffriess on 05 October 2006 at 10:46 PM.] |
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Jussi Huhtakangas Member From: Helsinki, Finland |
posted 06 October 2006 06:34 AM
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Dunno Lee, I've never seen an Epi horseshoe up close. |
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Jussi Huhtakangas Member From: Helsinki, Finland |
posted 09 October 2006 10:42 PM
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Ok, back from the tour. I have a close up picture of the pick up here on my computer, if someone cares to post it here, let me know and I'll email it! [This message was edited by Jussi Huhtakangas on 09 October 2006 at 10:43 PM.] |
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T. C. Furlong Member From: Vernon Hills, Illinois, USA |
posted 11 October 2006 06:20 AM
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Here is a photo of the pickup courtesy of Jussi. Now that's cool!  Here is a photo of Jussi with the Holy Grail.  TC |
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chas smith Member From: Encino, CA, USA |
posted 11 October 2006 09:19 AM
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Also, notice the tight fit-up between the endplate and the cabinet. |
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Lee Jeffriess Member From: Yucca Valley California |
posted 11 October 2006 04:24 PM
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Jussi, what did you think of the pick up compared to your bigsby, did it seem like a louder or sweater tone?, i know thats hard to do without having them both set up and doing an A/B comparison, but over all what was your impression. Lee |
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PAUL WARNIK Member From: OAK LAWN,IL,USA |
posted 11 October 2006 09:48 PM
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I second Lee's question How does the early Bigsby pickup compare to the blade pickup used '49 and later? |
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Jussi Huhtakangas Member From: Helsinki, Finland |
posted 11 October 2006 10:37 PM
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Well, like you say Lee, really hard to compare. Mainly since it was plugged to a Fender Vibrolux, something I've never done with my own guitar. A Standel amp is the big part of the way I'm used to hear the tone of my guitar. But the sound of those horseshoes definately was very full; big fat low end with tons of crisp highs. Whether there is a significant difference to the later design, one would really need to put them side by side to compare. However, I'd say it was definately that famous Bigsby tone. I would add too that I had a chance to try out a friend's Bigsby standard guitar and the PU's on that axe were definately the sweetest sounding PU's I've ever heard. [This message was edited by Jussi Huhtakangas on 11 October 2006 at 10:42 PM.] |
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PAUL WARNIK Member From: OAK LAWN,IL,USA |
posted 11 October 2006 11:52 PM
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Jussi and T C-Thanks for that photo close up of the horseshoe type pickup-I wondered what the earlier Bigsby ones looked like under the pickup covers-As much as I admire Paul Bigsby's work it appears to me that the earlier pickup COULD BE (and I emphasize COULD) be an infringement upon Rickenbacher's patent-If the folks at Rickenbacher could make someone like Rick Aiello stop making a horseshoe type pickup for his "dustpans" in the current day It is conceivable that they threatened suit with Bigsby prior to the blade center coil core pickup that he switched to around 1949 |
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Fred Bova Member From: Montrose, California, USA |
posted 12 October 2006 12:17 AM
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Hi what exactly is "plunger style keyhead changer" ? |
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Fred Bova Member From: Montrose, California, USA |
posted 12 October 2006 12:20 AM
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Hi, also, and pictures of the Changer ? |
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PAUL WARNIK Member From: OAK LAWN,IL,USA |
posted 12 October 2006 12:23 AM
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Fred B-The earliest type of Bigsby pedal steels had a sort of plunger that pushed on the strings inside the center of the headstock to change the string pitch-the changer bridge with fingers came later-I have seen several Bigsbys that had both types on them although the plungers seem to be largely discontinued in use by 1954 [This message was edited by PAUL WARNIK on 12 October 2006 at 12:30 AM.] |
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Lee Jeffriess Member From: Yucca Valley California |
posted 12 October 2006 11:36 PM
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Paul, I think the fact that he has cloaked the pick up with a cover, would indicate that he is maybe concerned about copyright or at least he is hiding the fact, he is using someone elses design. The Merle travis guitar and the Dick Allen guitar, both have eight string blade pick ups and, are also from this 47/48 period. Im thinking that the horseshoes are a hold over from the earlier D8 46? and maybe by late 47 he has the blade PU, but has already done most of the work on Murpheys guitar and, doesent retrofit the pickups, why mess with it it sounds good and its concealed?. At the moment we know the earliest blade pick up on a steel is Chas Smiths sep 48 D8, with excactly the same cover, the Barney Barnes is I beleive may 48, I wonder if that can be checked out? and, Speedys feb 48 which is MIA. Im not sure about the excact dates on the Travis/Allen standard guitars, but they are in this time frame and, they have eight string blade pick ups. I have had the suspcion for a long time that the pick up was the one thing that Bigsby didnt have together, we know now he has made two guitars? with after market or his own copy hoseshoes and I beleive he has been guided on the blade pick up by Les Paul. Bigsby Murphey and,Paul were all good friends around this time and who better to ask advice on a pick up design that resembles the Charlie Christian pick up that Les likes to rewind to lower impedances and, as we all know Les is no slouch with electronics. What Im saying is unprovable speculation and totaly a gut feeling but at the same time Bigsby doesnt have his own pick up he is around Les paul then he does? I asked Les Paul, face to face did you come with the Bigsby coil and, he looked a little surprised and, said yes. Who knows. Lee |
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PAUL WARNIK Member From: OAK LAWN,IL,USA |
posted 13 October 2006 01:28 AM
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Lee 'ol Buddy I never knew about the Bigsby/Les Paul Connection-I know that Ted (McCarty) was of course connected with Les before and after he acquired Bigsby-But Ted never mentioned any such connection there to me-Ted did however tell me in conversation that he believed in the total truth of the old story that Leo Fender ripped off Bigsby's solid body guitar design by borrowing Bigsby's axe and then coming up with the Fender Broadcaster-Now Ted also confided in me that he WAS NOT friends with Leo and perhaps his belief was influenced by Paul Bigsby's side of the story-What I believe is that P.A. would be "rolling over in his grave"  if he knew that his trademark name was now owned by Fender since they bought out Gretsch which as you know bought out Bigsby accessories in Kalamazoo shortly before Ted's passing-Getting back to the horseshoe thing-my Rickenbacher book states that they patented the "frying pan steel guitar with horseshoe pickup" in 1934-Since Bigsby made a horseshoe pickup by 1946 it would seem that he was probably infringing upon Rickenbachers patent during its duration and that is probably the reason he changed to the blade core pickup design |
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Jussi Huhtakangas Member From: Helsinki, Finland |
posted 13 October 2006 02:49 AM
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Or maybe he just changed the design because he started getting more orders for both steels and Spanish guitars and a regular flat magnet PU is easier to adapt for both use. PA did, after all, do some other little refinements too for more practical reasons, i.e. how the legs attach to the endplates, and the endplates to the body, different style handles on the endplates etc. Interesting too, that right after this Joaquin's guitar he changed to metal necks. |
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Ron Whitfield Member From: Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA |
posted 13 October 2006 01:35 PM
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No doubt that Les and PA/Murph were friends and shared lots of quality time, as I understand, LP thot Joaquin's Bigsby steels had the best guitar tone going at the time. I've always dreamt of those 2 jamming together. Les and PA's friendship may not have survived intact however. |
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chas smith Member From: Encino, CA, USA |
posted 13 October 2006 08:26 PM
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Joaquin said that he and Les would hang out and jam in Les' garage. |
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Lee Jeffriess Member From: Yucca Valley California |
posted 13 October 2006 09:35 PM
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Bob, from retrofret called me today and,he had checked on the Barney Barnes guitar, its a blade pickup. So now we have an earlier date May 48. Lee |
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Mark Durante Member From: Illinois |
posted 14 October 2006 03:17 PM
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So does anyone know for sure if Speedy's Bigsby had the horseshoe pickups? |
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Jussi Huhtakangas Member From: Helsinki, Finland |
posted 15 October 2006 02:32 AM
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Been wondering the same thing, also Noel Boggs' guitar which is a month earlier than Speedy's. |
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James Pennebaker Member From: Mt. Juliet, TN |
posted 15 October 2006 06:56 AM
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From pictures I can see on the web site below (but not in any great detail) Speedy West's Bigsby appears to have covers over the pickups very much like, if not identical to, Joaquin Murphy's guitar. http://www.rockabillyhall.com/SpeedyWest1.html JP |
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chas smith Member From: Encino, CA, USA |
posted 15 October 2006 11:40 AM
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The 12-20-48 lap steel D-8 has those same covers and it's a blade.  [This message was edited by chas smith on 15 October 2006 at 11:43 AM.] |
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Lee Jeffriess Member From: Yucca Valley California |
posted 15 October 2006 01:00 PM
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I wonder, if anyone out there is able to get to Noels T8, i beleive it is owned by Bob Whites family. Chas why did I think your D8 was Sep 48?. So I guess that cover goes right through 48 and, like Paul said the more common cover shows up in 49. It would be interesting to know whats on the early Noel/Speedy guitars, because of there early finish dates we could safely assume they were started in 47. Lee [This message was edited by Lee Jeffriess on 15 October 2006 at 01:03 PM.] |
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PAUL WARNIK Member From: OAK LAWN,IL,USA |
posted 15 October 2006 11:24 PM
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Lee-I had my hands on Noel's Bigsby for a few minutes while Bob White was alive-I begged him to sell it to me but he wanted to keep it because in his words "It took him back" As I recall it had a '47 serial number and the earlier type pickup covers-According to Pee Wee Whitewing the guitar went missing shortly before Bob passed on-Bob confided in me that he feared it might wind up in a pawn shop if he willed it to someone in his family upon his passing-I know Ben Jack has Bob's triple 8-10-10 Bigsby Perhaps he knows what happened to Noel's? Otherwise nobody is talking of its whereabouts |
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Jussi Huhtakangas Member From: Helsinki, Finland |
posted 16 October 2006 01:09 AM
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Someone here once posted that the date on Noel's guitar is Jan. 14th -48. |
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chas smith Member From: Encino, CA, USA |
posted 16 October 2006 09:16 AM
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"Chas why did I think your D8 was Sep 48?" Maybe because I was born in March '48 and I have the same covers with a blade pickup..... |
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Mike Black Member From: New Mexico, USA |
posted 17 October 2006 10:09 AM
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Lee, did Bob ask about the Jack Rivers guitar? |
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Lee Jeffriess Member From: Yucca Valley California |
posted 17 October 2006 07:24 PM
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Mike, thats funny you should mention that, we were talking about that today on my lunch break. Bob said that the guitar was in the Rock n roll museum in seatle? and, it has a 47 date and the pick up isnt a blade or a horseshoe. Also I received a date citation, Bob told me the Barney Barnes T8 was june or july. Thats two dates I have goofed up on now, one more and, Im toast. Lee |
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Jussi Huhtakangas Member From: Helsinki, Finland |
posted 17 October 2006 10:34 PM
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Lee, you didn't really goof up, the date given for Barney Barnes' guitar in the VG calender is May 1st -48. Another early one would be Frank Juricek's guitar, the one he sold to Walter Haynes. Frank told me Bigsby saying it was the fifth one built. Whether it meant it was the fifth triple neck or the fifth actual guitar PA built, I don't know. I believe he meant the fifth console triple neck. Mike & Lee, you guys know this guitar very well, right!? You should have Jimmy to check the date on it. |
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Lee Jeffriess Member From: Yucca Valley California |
posted 17 October 2006 10:47 PM
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A repreive, I thought that guitar was May,I will check with Jamie on the Walter haynes guitar,but Im sure Mike knows the date on it to be honest I think I have only seen it once and, I thought it was 49?. Lee |
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chas smith Member From: Encino, CA, USA |
posted 18 October 2006 11:01 AM
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"Thats two dates I have goofed up on now, one more and, I'm toast." Wife's birthday.... |
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