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Author
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Topic: C6, where do I start
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James Mayer
Member From: Oregon, USA
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posted 02 October 2006 03:31 PM
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Roman, I have the Vanduras' "In The Dark" and love it. That's a great album. I'll have to look into some of the others you mention. I've never heard of most of them. That pedal-steel on the Calexico track has really got my attention. I hope I'm not going to have to pick up one of those in the future. I really like the portability of a lap steel. |
James Mayer
Member From: Oregon, USA
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posted 02 October 2006 03:43 PM
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I have all of the georgeboards cd. The only thing I got from those was the pinched harmonic that is used in the signature lick of Sleepwalk. They really don't have much material on them....I was pretty dissapointed.I'm in a contstant limbo of being not very good at lap steel but advanced enough on other instruments to bypass most of the material in the methods that I have seen. Of course, I am not speaking about the musical pieces in these methods, just the techniques, chord diagrams, etc. I'm thinking that I'm actually in a good spot becuase the source of my frustration come from me not wanting to sound like anyone else (but similar to FriendsDMartinez/Vanduras/Calexico). Sooner or later I'll figure out what I want. This chatboard and listening suggestions like yours will surely aid in my journey. |
Andy Volk
Member From: Boston, MA
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posted 02 October 2006 05:27 PM
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James, the tunes you posted as demos of the sound you seek seem to feature a processed, mostly single note steel sound. You can get this with most ANY tuning. C6th and all the other nonpedal tuning are only as dated as the player's conception of them is dated. Tunings are just intervals. Some tunings facilitate certain techniques bettere than others. C6th offers diatonic intervals in very logical fretboard patterns. C diatonic allows harp-like cascades across scale tones. The sacred steel E tunings offer a lot of power through doubled melody notes. B11th offers richly voiced dominant 7th, 9th and 11th chords. Pedal steel offers access to more complex voicings but has a much different tonal signature than lap steel. It all depends on what you want to hear. Would you say that A major tuning is limited? Listen to Bob Dunn! It's all in your head, man. |
Roman Sonnleitner
Member From: Vienna, Austria
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posted 03 October 2006 01:05 AM
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Well, here's another listening suggestion, if you don't mind: the band Richmond Fontaine has some very athmospheric steel playing on some of their albums (I particularly like "Post To Wire") - had a chat with their guitar player, Paul Brainard, after a concert a couple of months ago, and while he does also play lap steel, on the albums it's mostly pedal steel work. |
Gary Boyett
Member From: Colorado
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posted 03 October 2006 04:35 AM
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James,
If you are looking for good C6th material, pick up Jerry Byrd's course. It is about $110.00 but a lifetime of information.You can get it here;
Scottys Music ------------------
HSGA & RMSGC member
Play it with "Glass"
Boyett's Glass Bars
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Edward Meisse
Member From: Santa Rosa, California, USA
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posted 03 October 2006 11:28 PM
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Gosh, Andy. I find that tuning makes a big difference even in single string playing. Whatever tuning has alot of chord opportunities is also gonna have alot of arpeggio (sp) opportunities. As you know, arppeggios are single string expressions of chords. With my C6 tuned Weissenborn I am almost always able to outshine much better G tuning players at acoustic traditional jazz and swing jams. It is just plain way easier to play sophisticated melody lines in C6 than in G or E. That is why so many people have adopted the newer tunings and why the more primitive tunings are primarily niche (for instance G bluegrass) tunings. Good players make them sound great. But they lack the versatility of the modern tunings. |
James Mayer
Member From: Oregon, USA
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posted 04 October 2006 07:20 AM
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So, are you saying that C6th is a modern tuning? I guess I thought it was pretty old. |
Don Kona Woods
Member From: Vancouver, Washington, USA
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posted 04 October 2006 10:14 AM
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quote:
So, are you saying that C6th is a modern tuning? I guess I thought it was pretty old.
James, it is relatively old and relatively new.  Aloha,
Don |
Edward Meisse
Member From: Santa Rosa, California, USA
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posted 04 October 2006 11:20 AM
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I think in the long run we are going to find that some version of what is known as Orchestra tuning (5-3-1-6-5-3-1-6) and the C6/E6 tuning that goes (3-1-6-5-3-1-6-4) are going to dominate nonpedal playing. I also think that chordal playing will have less emphasis. But these two tunings have tremendous versatility. They will be the standard. Other tunings will be used for niches and the occasional dallyance. I haven't looked closely enough at Leavitt tuning to comment with much conviction. But it looks like it loses alot of what I like about steel guitar in order to get some really nice chodal sounds. But I'm still exploring there. |
John McGann
Member From: Boston, Massachusetts, USA
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posted 04 October 2006 07:03 PM
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quote:
That is why so many people have adopted the newer tunings and why the more primitive tunings are primarily niche (for instance G bluegrass) tunings.
If Jerry Douglas is 'primitive' in G and D tunings, I hope to someday evolve to that primary level Gotta agree with Andy about the Bob Dunn stuff being amazing- and I can play some swing stuff in a triad tuning, but the 6th/13th tunings make it easier to get at stuff with less bar movement...but it IS largely in your head- you have to know what you want to play, and find it in whatever tuning, be is straight guitar or lap steel or trumpet... ------------------
http://www.johnmcgann.com
Info for musicians, transcribers, technique tips and fun stuff. Joaquin Murphey transcription book, Rhythm Tuneup DVD and more... |
Edward Meisse
Member From: Santa Rosa, California, USA
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posted 04 October 2006 07:36 PM
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Re; Jerry Douglas-As I also said-some players can get some terrific sounding stuff out of the more primitive tunings. Auldridge is no slouch in G tuning himself. And I agree about Bob Dunn. But as you said yourself, The 6th tunings make things more accessable. By the way, Doesn't Mr. Douglas primarily play bluegrass?[This message was edited by Edward Meisse on 04 October 2006 at 07:37 PM.] |
Chris Walke
Member From: St Charles, IL
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posted 05 October 2006 11:21 AM
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"By the way, Doesn't Mr. Douglas primarily play bluegrass?"These days, bluegrass is merely Douglas' launching point...most of the time. Many times, he's nowhere near bluegrass. |
Patrick Newbery
Member From: San Francisco, California, USA
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posted 05 October 2006 08:50 PM
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James-
I have re-read your question that began this post several times (and read all of the responses). And with all due respect, would suggest that you spend 6-12 months with any single tuning of your choice. What you seek comes with practice, patience and enthusiasm.Any tuning will give you what you a lot of what you want. All the posts in this thread confirm that. I would surmise that despite your knowledge of theory, the truth is in the playing and the true reason to choose a particular tuning is still a few years away |
BobbeSeymour
Member From: Hendersonville TN USA
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posted 05 October 2006 09:05 PM
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If you seriously wish to be the worlds greatest C6th player, Maurice Anderson is the only way in my humble opinion, and a great teacher with a torrent of the greatest knowledge a steel guitar mind can possibly hold. bobbster |
Ron Brennan
Member From: Edison, New Jersey, USA
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posted 06 October 2006 06:41 AM
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James,I’ve been reading your post with interest. I reread you initial request and it seems to me your objective is to just get started on C6th basics. This resonates with me as I was in the same situation about 18 months ago. I had played in a Rock band long ago, gave it up for about 30 years, although I kept all my equipment all that time. Now, I have come back to Steel (still crazy after all these years) and have a renewed and formidable desire to learn and play again. That’s my short story. I had never played C6 before and was very interested in this tuning that I had read and heard about. Thanks to this Forum and the wonderful “abundance mentality” of the members here, l chose to keep it simple. Now let me say this, IMHO, Bobby Seymour is way too humble here! I took a chance and called his store up as I had seen he had 2 C6th instructional VHS tapes on his web site. I was so surprised when he answered the phone and spent some time with me. I told him of my objective and he put me “right on track” to what I wanted to do. I received & studied the two tapes, his methods and approach to C6th. Further, you can go back (I still do) to the lessons for a review, even when you become more proficient. James, I cannot tell how delighted I am that I did this!! I got straightened out faster than a P51 Mustang can fly. It was amazing, relatively easy, especially if you have some background. Leaning C6th has been a whole lot of fun thanks to Bobbe’s tapes and method. There are even some neat tricks he put in. Because I am more of a “ear” player”, what I wanted to learn was how to find my way around the C6th tuning and quite honestly, the rest was up to me and my technique. Bobbe must have had me in mind when he produced the lessons, because that just what I got. Simple, easy and fun! Additionally, I find C6th a lot more interesting and easier to do fills, solos songs and background. It doesn’t matter whether it be standards, C&W or Blues, etc. I love Hawaiian but have very, very little application around these parts except for my own pleasure. Funny thing is, with every song you learn in C6th, the easier it becomes, just as Bobbe said in his lessons. I am just sharing my observations and experience with you. If your objective is/was the same as mine …then you should consider the foregoing recommendation. You’ll be glad you did!! Good Luck..TX Rgds, Ron
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JCFSGC member 2005 "Be of Good Cheer"
"55" Stringmaster D8,
"67" Telecaster,
"60"Fender Concert Amp 4-10's
[This message was edited by Ron Brennan on 06 October 2006 at 06:46 AM.]
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