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  Question about Emmons Fat Back P/P (Page 2)

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Author Topic:   Question about Emmons Fat Back P/P
BobbeSeymour
Member

From: Hendersonville TN USA

posted 12 September 2001 01:32 PM     profile     
Yes, Sonny's guitar is a little later than these flat(or fat)back guitars. However he did have one fat back guitar, rosewood, that he used on MANY hit sessions. Sonny does as much recording as anyone in Gnashville,now or ever! An unsung hero, this guy is SOOOOOO under rated!
www.bobbeseymour.com
Greg Derksen
Member

From: Calgary, AB. Canada

posted 12 September 2001 06:07 PM     profile     
Thanx for your info, He's a true pro, thats
underrated in some ways, His tone is very
unique, but I think its his vibrato that
makes it that way, his notes sound like him.
Greg
Bobby Boggs
Member

From: Pendleton SC

posted 12 September 2001 08:36 PM     profile     
Ole Dantoft.I hope you enjoy #1646 as much as I did.Does it still have the Picking parlor decal on it? Frank may have taken it off.
Does anyone know where #1612 is.Another one of mine.-------bb
basilh
Member

From: United Kingdom

posted 13 September 2001 04:39 PM     profile     
I presume my two Emmons' are "fatbacks"
the ser.No.s of My
guitars are 1340 D and 1416 D
(Both from 1970 I believe)

------------------

quote:
Steel players do it without fretting

http://homepage.tinet.ie/~basilhenriques/

http://www.stax-a-trax.com/

Ole Dantoft
Member

From: Copenhagen, Denmark

posted 14 September 2001 03:34 PM     profile     
Bobby B,
I'm sure enjoying it !! It plays about as smooth as anything I've tried, and the sound is just fantastic !

No, that decal is gone - it's about as clean as a new guitar actually. Were you the original first owner of this beauty ?

Ole

Bobby Boggs
Member

From: Pendleton SC

posted 19 September 2001 01:21 PM     profile     
Ole,I bought the guitar in 1977.I was the second owner.It was my primary axe till late 1990.I still used the guitar for practice and casuals until Dec 97.
About the decal. I put it on because Buddy Emmons had that decal on several guitars.At that time in my life,what ever Buddy did I tried to do.It didn't help my playing, but boy was I cool! -----bb
Ole Dantoft
Member

From: Copenhagen, Denmark

posted 20 September 2001 12:46 PM     profile     
Bobby,
Thanks a lot. It's good to know the history of a wonderfull instrument like this one.

As for Buddy, my favorite steel-instrumental is Londonderry Air/Danny Boy BE-style, but I'd NEVER dare to play it in public

Ole

Jody Carver
Member

From: The Knight Of Fender Tweed~ Dodger Blue Forever

posted 20 September 2001 07:30 PM     profile     
Hey Guys,,,,I was in a resturant last week & saw a "fat back" I looked under the apron & almost got arrested,,,,the waitress with the
"fat back" got a nice tip from me for her
trouble. Couldnt hear or see the Difference.

Ya seen one,,,you have seen them all...they all look the same,,,beauty is in the eyes of the beholder,,,I was beholding that day.

BobbeSeymour
Member

From: Hendersonville TN USA

posted 20 September 2001 08:38 PM     profile     
Fat back also used to be a great type of "beat" used by drummers in the sixtys for a type of Rock music,and I loved it! Jody, remember? It wasn't country but it sure felt good though. Most new drummers today don't know what it is. I miss it even though it didn't work all that well on "Night Life".
Jody, so good to see you on the forum buddy,I've missed your intelligence and humor! Does anyone have or remember the LeGrande "fatbacks" from the early eightys?
J. Rodney Scattergood III

[This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 20 September 2001 at 08:39 PM.]

Bobby Boggs
Member

From: Pendleton SC

posted 20 September 2001 09:14 PM     profile     
No, but I have a fatback Legrande III on order. ----bb
Ole Dantoft
Member

From: Copenhagen, Denmark

posted 21 September 2001 09:01 AM     profile     
Jody,
Good one

BTW I presently have two fatbacks in the house, and I love both of them !!



Ole

P.S. : Ooohhh my God, don't ever let my wife see this !

[This message was edited by Ole Dantoft on 21 September 2001 at 09:03 AM.]

Gene Jones
Member

From: Oklahoma City, OK USA

posted 21 September 2001 12:38 PM     profile     
*

[This message was edited by Gene Jones on 02 May 2002 at 01:53 PM.]

Jim Bob Sedgwick
Member

From: Clinton, Missouri USA

posted 21 September 2001 06:18 PM     profile     
Gene: My wife still puts fatback and Hamhocks in the pinto beans, navy beans, etc. Am I showing my age: BTW I have a "fatback" Williams. Great sounding axe.
Gene Jones
Member

From: Oklahoma City, OK USA

posted 22 September 2001 04:23 AM     profile     
* !

[This message was edited by Gene Jones on 02 May 2002 at 01:53 PM.]

Jody Carver
Member

From: The Knight Of Fender Tweed~ Dodger Blue Forever

posted 22 February 2003 11:59 AM     profile     
For those of you who missed all the fun of times gone by,here is another for you.

I enjoy old movies and nostaglia and I think you will enjoy this as well.

Thanks to bOb for keeping these in the"archives" wow did I say all that??

This is for new members and those who may have missed the "good times".

It makes me feel bad when I see members who are no longer with us,but at least we have these to remember them by.

Look at all the trouble I saved you by finding these.

Jack Anderson
Member

From: Scarborough, ME

posted 23 February 2003 07:43 AM     profile     
Jody, we all enjoy it when you and Bobbe chew the fat.

Bobbe, if you are familiar with the late King Curtis' recipe for "Memphis Soul Stew," I believe he started with a pound of fat back drums. Do they make anything like that it Nashville?

C Dixon
Member

From: Duluth, GA USA

posted 23 February 2003 10:09 AM     profile     
In late '69, I bought a new Emmons P/P "fullback" with 9 and 2. It had two strips like Bobbe talked about. They ran from the front to the rear aprons and were of course black flocked.

It was obvious what these metal straps were for. Wide arpons on a PSG hanging in mid air have nothing to make them rigid. These metal straps was THE answer for that. Pulling strings on a PSG, creates a lot of stress on the cabinet and aprons play a role here. So the straps are important IMO.

8 years later, I gutted the guitar; corrected some factory "goofs"; and tried to install 9 more knee levers; and one more pedal. Much to my consternation, the metal staps got in the way of several of the new knee levers.

Since I rarely follow the policy of "live for the moment", I walked away from the partially assembled guitar and studied it for days and days, trying to figure away to "have my cake and eat it too!". In a word, "them straps were on there, and they are going to STAY there unless there is NO way around it!"

Months went by. I was about ready to do away with the straps, rationlizing "most other make guitars had never used them". Then has happened sooo much in my life, Jesus guided me to the Emmons booth at ISGC, and they had newer Emmons (of course) and they had the rear apron cut away. BUT they had a single strap going from front to back. But it was bent (offset) to account for the difference in heights of the two aprons.

Praise Jesus, THAT was the answer. So even though my guitar was designed for level straps, I took some 1" wide x 1'8" thick bar steel and bent them in the middle making and offset about 1/2" creating a step down towards the back. And installed them under the guitar. This then solved my knee lever problems. And since the straps were steel, the bend did not take anything away from the rigidity. This I liked. I didn't flock them, But I did paint them flat black. Looked great.

Interesting side bit about this guitar. I did NOT like the tone of the guitar from day one. NEVER did like it. So naturally I scoffed at all the P/P hooplah; even remarking negatively on this forum in the early days concerning it.

But about 3 yrs before I started posting, my friend in Atlanta, (Mac Atcheson) had loaned me a set of 19K PU's to try and get a better sound. Mine came with 14.5K. But I procrastinated and never got around to putting them in. "Them PU's aint gonna make that sound any better!"

Then I decided to sell the "stupid" guitar; after I got my LeGrande. When I got a firm bid on it, I thought, "This is not right, the sound of this Emmons' is NOT what this buyer is probably expecting. And this is NOT the Christian thing to do".

So I remembered those 19K PU's that Mac had loaned me. (I know, it takes me a while , but Mac is the last soul on this earth to ever care. He is a prince of a man). So I dug them out and replaced them on the 69 P/P.

I wanted to cry. THERE was the sound. THERE it was. Could NOT believe it. Oh how I wanted to back out of the deal. But it was too late. I would not go back on a firm bid. So I gave Mac the 14.5K's (which he WANTED all along) and shipped the guitar to a lucky buyer. I got 1600 dollars for it.

A '69 Emmons' with 10 pedals, 11 knee levers, fat back WITH two straps and a sound to die for. And never played out of my house!

But ya know what. Our Lord said,

"To whom much is given, much shall be required". So I shipped it an never looked back. And the blessings flowed even more,

Praise His holy name,

carl

[This message was edited by C Dixon on 23 February 2003 at 10:15 AM.]

Earnest Bovine
Member

From: Los Angeles CA USA

posted 23 February 2003 10:19 AM     profile     
quote:
It had two strips like Bobbe talked about. They ran from the front to the rear aprons and were of course black flocked.
It was obvious what these metal straps were for. Wide arpons on a PSG hanging in mid air have nothing to make them rigid. These metal straps was THE answer for that. Pulling strings on a PSG, creates a lot of stress on the cabinet and aprons play a role here. So the straps are important IMO.


But the strips (straps) run perpendicular to the changing string tension. What is the benefit of added rigidity in this direction?

BobbeSeymour
Member

From: Hendersonville TN USA

posted 23 February 2003 10:29 AM     profile     
These perpendicular straps you are refering to Ernest are for keeping the front and back from "bowing out" and have nothing to do with anything else, the P-P Emmons steel guitars have NO cabnet drop because of the way the changer fingers piviot against the body of the guitar. (possibly I didn't truly understand your question?)
Bobbe
Jody Carver
Member

From: The Knight Of Fender Tweed~ Dodger Blue Forever

posted 23 February 2003 10:52 AM     profile     
Are you not happy I resurected this old thread??

[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 23 February 2003 at 08:18 PM.]

C Dixon
Member

From: Duluth, GA USA

posted 23 February 2003 11:00 AM     profile     
I must take exception to my dear friend Bobbe and answer Ernest's question.

While it is true the Emmons' P/P has little to no cabinet drop; because of the way its changer works (IE, the raise finger stop being the wood body causes the finger to act as a "counterforce" ass'y like on the LeGrande III). a rigid front and rear apron DOES aid in helping to minimize any cabinet flexing.

Here is why. JUST like a piece of angle iron has been used for 100's of years as longitudinal strength in a myriad of construction applications, SO does the front and rear aprons of a PSG cabinet, UNLESS those aprons are permitted to bow in our outwards.

On the Emmons' they tend to bow outward, on my Excel they bow inward. Incidently, Excel is now installing a metal strap in the middle of the guitar from front to back. And SO am I! He does one more thing.

On Excel superB models, there is a tall 1/4" thick aluminum rail that runs the entire length of the guitar; in the center for rigidity and center crossrod support. This new strap is screwed to this rail; as well as the front and rear aprons.

In summation. ANY thing one can do to help minimize pulling stress is an advantage over not doing it on a PSG. It is estimated that each string exerts about 30 lbs of stress.

Times 20 (D-10) that is a whopping 600 lbs! Then when a pedal is pressed you must multiply all raise pullers by 30 lbs. So it is obvious that a strap (keeping the aprons from bowing; or angle iron, etc is much superior than not having them.

carl

[This message was edited by C Dixon on 23 February 2003 at 11:06 AM.]

BobbeSeymour
Member

From: Hendersonville TN USA

posted 23 February 2003 11:12 AM     profile     
Carl, yes, you are correct, but what I am trying to express is that it just isn't as nessary on a push pull as it is on a all pull guitar. The "Bowing effect" when pedals are depressed is a very slight factor but remember, the very nature of the push-pull is that if you didn't have a slight amount of Cabnet drop, your sixth string would actually raise,you know , go sharp! So a small amount of P-P body flex could be benificial to the "playing it tune process".
If you wish me to get very deep into this explanation, well, I don't know if my spelling could stand it or not! ( Ha! Ha!) I know more than I can spell!
Bobbe
Jody Carver
Member

From: The Knight Of Fender Tweed~ Dodger Blue Forever

posted 23 February 2003 12:03 PM     profile     
On my 69 Emmons there is a metal strap running from front to back in addition to the straps front and rear attached to the apron.I hear no noticeable cabinet drop and this guitar has not been modified in any way.

It came from the Emmons factory this way.


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