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Author
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Topic: Waco vs. Arlington
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BobbeSeymour
Member From: Hendersonville TN USA
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posted 22 October 2001 02:25 PM
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Steve, Built in Texas but I would not call them a "regional" guitar. Many , many , were built, I'm finding out that more were manufactured than most people will ever know.
Texas should be proud! They are all over the world now.
Bobster |
Steve Stallings
Member From: Bremond, Tx, pop 876, Home of the fighting Bremond Tigers
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posted 22 October 2001 02:49 PM
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"Texas should be proud" and we are! lol. btw, a friend of mine named Jim Flynn (Lonestar Steel) bought all the remaining MCI/EMCI parts, bodies, pedals, changers, etc. a few years back. I believe that he has used these parts with some of his own changes to come up with a steel that he markets as "The Lone Star Special". He has a shop in Salado, Tx and has a link on the forum to Lonestar Steel. ------------------
Steve Stallings
Bremond, Texas
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Herb Steiner
Member From: Cedar Valley, Travis County TX
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posted 22 October 2001 04:01 PM
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quote:
"Texas should be proud"
and we are!
That about the biggest understatement I've seen on the Forum in a looooonnng time! Once, after I went on and on about TX, some woman said to me "you Texans are always so quick to stand up for Texas." I told her "lady, if you rode a horse 16 hours a day, you'd be quick to stand up for ANYTHING!!!"  ------------------
Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association |
Jimmie Misenheimer
Member From: Bloomington, Indiana - U. S. A.
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posted 22 October 2001 08:38 PM
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Sorry -- Just couldn't quite let it go at that. Mr. Cohen, that way of thinking makes the wrong answers as good as the right ones. That's the kind of information that I'm interested in!! WOW!! By the by... to all of the cats that think that perhaps I'm "confused" as to this, that, or the other, I'm not confused about ANYTHING that I said. That in itself makes me decidely different from some of you... and THAT in itself makes me happy... You Know Who |
Jim Cohen
Member From: Philadelphia, PA
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posted 22 October 2001 09:02 PM
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I have a feeling we're gonna have to agree to disagree on this one. All I'll add is that I don't say that "wrong answers are as good as right ones", but that people who offer, in good faith and a spirit of helpfulness, what you might regard as "wrong answers" are as deserving of respect as the person who (this time) happened to have the "right answer", and should not be subjected to anyone's "knee-slapping ridicule". Also, I'm very suspicous of anyone who insists, a little too loudly and a little too often, that only "they" know the "right answer" and have been put in charge of the Truth with a capital T. |
Jimmie Misenheimer
Member From: Bloomington, Indiana - U. S. A.
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posted 23 October 2001 04:46 AM
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Maybe I'm mistaken about this (imagine that), but isn't "this time" the time that we've been talking about?? It's the time that I've been talking about. OUCH!! sorry, sore knee. I've read quite alot of "mis-information" (there's that damn word again) on here in the past 2to 3 years. The only REAL problem that I've EVER had with ANY of it is the seeming validity that surrounds it. We can agree on one thing though, I too am suspisious of anyone who... wait a minute - why - why - why you meant me didn't you. Must have been confused again! You can understand how that could happen. One more thing -- I'm not REALLY in charge of much of anything but cutting the grass and taking out the garbage (at least what part of it that we don't eat now), but if and when I am, I'll be sure that you're the FIRST to know. I'm outta' here.... ooooh sorry... sore leg you know - -
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Randy Pettit
Member From: Van Alstyne, Texas USA
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posted 23 October 2001 07:18 AM
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Oh b0b, where art thou? |
Steve Stallings
Member From: Bremond, Tx, pop 876, Home of the fighting Bremond Tigers
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posted 23 October 2001 07:35 AM
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I suspect b0b is rolling on the floor laughing...... this is funny stuff ------------------
Steve Stallings
Bremond, Texas
[This message was edited by Steve Stallings on 23 October 2001 at 07:38 AM.]
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BobbeSeymour
Member From: Hendersonville TN USA
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posted 23 October 2001 02:10 PM
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That's why bOb wears those bib overalls Steve! |
Murnel Babineaux
Member From: Jennings, Louisiana, USA
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posted 26 April 2004 08:39 PM
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I've only seen MCI's and EMCI's with aluminum necks. One in particular, I own.Murnel |
Jerry Roller
Member From: Van Buren, Arkansas USA
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posted 26 April 2004 09:30 PM
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There was apparently at least two Waco models of the MCI built and one of them was an intermediate model. Surely I am not the only one who ever owned one. It was covered with black Lexan instead of mica. Instead of aluminum trim strips it had I think double white stripes top and bottom of the front apron made into the plastic Lexan material. The necks were also Lexan covered wooden necks. I say it was an intermediate guitar because to me it had the apprearance of being so, however, mechanically it was well built and played fine. It did not have a welded frame. The front decal read MCI Waco. From what I have read in this thread it seems that there was also a welded frame, mica covered Waco model built. I am only getting involved it this to bring to the attention of someone who might be about to purchase a Waco model and base his purchase on what was posted above describing the Waco as an equal to the other models. I think it is possible that it could be or again it might not be.
Jerry |
Paddy Long
Member From: Christchurch, New Zealand
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posted 27 April 2004 09:23 PM
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I got my MCI Rangexpander D10 in 1986, it has the welded frame, and Buddy Emmons was definitely involved with the company at that stage cos I still have the catalogue at home somewhere with him sitting behind a black D10 with a red top. It is still a brilliant guitar and I will probably never sell it.
My kids might when I croak though !! |
Mike Perlowin
Member From: Los Angeles CA
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posted 28 April 2004 08:41 AM
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quote:
How many guitars did this company (MCI / EMCI) produce? I've never even seen one!
Actually Bobby, you did, you just don't recall. Al Vescovo played one at the jam you and he and I all attended. |
Nicholas Dedring
Member From: Brooklyn, New York, USA
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posted 28 April 2004 09:16 AM
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Wow. Talk about coming back from the dead... how did this thread get brought back three years later???It's funny... I have one of the waco's with "lexan" features as described above... I would not describe it as a student instrument... such that having played other steels, I'm not in the mood to sell it and move on... wood neck, with cladding on it... triple-raise, triple-lower, 8&5 and there are certainly spaces left over for a bunch more crossrods for changes. Not to go off on proprietary pride, but I've had compliments on it from the folks who have played it, at least to my face I guess Should mention, for some reason, my guitar was built/rebuilt by Roy Thomas of Pedalmaster; it has bellcranks, and knee levers of his manufacture, GFI style six-hole flat blades with the brass collar and set-screw. Pedals, pedal rods, cross-rods and changer are all original MCI as near as I can tell... |
Jerry Roller
Member From: Van Buren, Arkansas USA
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posted 28 April 2004 10:08 AM
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Nicholas, I think you are correct. The "Lexan" model is a very good guitar and I would in no way classify it as a student guitar. It will do everything the mica guitar will do. However, I think they were able to cut a little expense in building this model so therefore the value might not be quite up to the value of the mica model. Maybe not quite as durable a finish as mica but certainly much more durable than lacquer. As far a mechanics, playability and probably tonewise, I am sure it matches up very well with the mica model. On the other hand if I were listing one for sale I would want to advise potential buyers that it is the "Lexan" clad guitar. Oh, just like most other used guitars I have sold, I was later sorry that I sold the one I had.
Jerry[This message was edited by Jerry Roller on 28 April 2004 at 10:09 AM.] |
Tommy M
Member From: Indiana
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posted 28 April 2004 10:53 AM
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Nicholas, The reason this thread was brought back from "the dead" is because I stumbled across it in a search and forwarded it to Murnel Babineaux. He owns, loves, and plays an EMCI and I thought he would find it interesting. He read it and didn't notice the date and replied, I guess. Anyway, I think there is some valid info pertaining to these guitars in this thread.Tommy Minniear |
Jody Sanders
Member From: Magnolia,Texas
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posted 28 April 2004 07:44 PM
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Hi Murnel, Glad to hear you are still out there. I always enjoyed those Louisiana Steel Shows that Tim Cushenbury produced and really. enjoyed hearing you, Richard, Jr. and the rest of the guys play. Take care, Jody. PS I played an Arlington EMCI on those shows. |
Nicholas Dedring
Member From: Brooklyn, New York, USA
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posted 28 April 2004 08:03 PM
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Tommy, I wasn't saying it to be critical or anything really, it was just funny looking at it and realizing that I had read this same thread before I bought my MCI... I didn't realize until later additions to it were posted that there's a difference between the various Waco's.I read this over at the time, figured the guitar was a good idea, and went ahead... replaced an old sho-bud crossover with it, and happy to have done so. Folks that have them all seem to be pretty happy with them, MCIs of strange varieties and especially EMCIs. Hope to get my hands on one of the metal neck EMCIs if my company doesn't close down and I can get the money together (and I can manage to find one, that is...) |
Buddy Emmons
Member From: Hermitage, TN USA
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posted 29 April 2004 07:27 AM
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In the interest of truth versus second hand smoke, I’ll supply the real reason for the E in front of MCI, which had nothing to do with my last name.
I received a call from John Birkhead saying he had to change the name of the guitar. I told him I was sorry to hear it because the MCI name was starting to gain recognition and a change at this stage might be confusing to potential customers. He asked if I had any suggestions and I said, “Yes, put an E in front of the MCI, separate the EM from the C, and place dots after C and I. Then the logo will read EM C.I. and still be pronounced MCI. John said he liked the idea, but designed the logo as EMCI with no separations, which gave the guitar a new name and left the reasoning behind it to the imagination.
[This message was edited by Buddy Emmons on 29 April 2004 at 07:28 AM.] |
Willis Vanderberg
Member From: Bradenton, FL, USA
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posted 03 May 2004 06:54 AM
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If we all stuck to the facts...this would be a pretty dull forum.As along as the answer is prefaced with a.." in my opinion" or " as I remember it " and so on , that makes it a worth while answer.
Now here is a fact..I have owned two MCI guitars. One was an Arlington and the other was a Waco. I was unable to tell an iota of difference in them. The only comment that I ever heard that made an impression on me was " That's a great sounding steel ". This comment was made by a true professional steel picker. That is not my opinion ..thats a fact.I know there will always be a difference of opinion...but lets just keep it at that ,and not go off the deep end about " facts ".If we weren't Forumites what would we be..? I want only the fact's now.... |
Jimmie Misenheimer
Member From: Bloomington, Indiana - U. S. A.
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posted 04 May 2004 07:20 PM
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Well, since I assume that this was directed at me, I may as well wade in here and make a few more "friends". If I could locate the "Waco" that was passed between I THINK three differant owners, (I know that it was passed between two), in this area, I could set it next to my "Arlington", and anyone with just a passing knoledge of this instrument could tell a WORLD of differance between the two. This is a FACT. Like Joe Friday said - "Just the facts ma'am"... Jimmie |
Dustin Rigsby
Member From: Columbus, Ohio
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posted 05 May 2004 04:27 AM
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"can't we all just get along"
Rodney King ca. 1992
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D.S. Rigsby
Carter Starter and various six string toys |
Willis Vanderberg
Member From: Bradenton, FL, USA
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posted 05 May 2004 04:59 AM
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Jimmie:
My comments were directed at the playability and tone charcter of the guitars. Cosmetically the Arlington was superior. It had the wider pedals also.
But as far as the way they played and the sound.. they were very close. Maybe my seventy year old ears aro not as good as they once were. I think I still can tell a good sound from something less.
Also bear in mind that a true fact is something you would bet your life on.
I would bet there are seeds in an apple, but we don't know until we cut it. So therfore I could only INFER there were seeds in it until I cut it open. A lot of us are guilty of stating inferences as though they were fact..myself included. |
John Lazarus
Member From: Tucson, AZ.
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posted 05 May 2004 08:03 AM
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Good, now that the bodies have been dragged from the arena, lets get back to the subject at hand. . . .Can anyone comment on the additional tack weld that appears on the changers of the EMCI but not the MCI welded frames? It is likely there to keep the changer from "falling in" slightly as they seem to do on the MCI. Jim Smith or Bobbe, have you any info on this point? |
Jimmie Misenheimer
Member From: Bloomington, Indiana - U. S. A.
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posted 05 May 2004 08:34 AM
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Willis, Yes sir, I agree with that. Perhaps I didn't quite understand your reply, and if that is the case then I was wrong. As an example, I did a fair amount of work on the "Waco" model that was - and still may be around this area. Years back when I expanded my tuning from 8 and 6, to the now 9 and 8, I completely redid my guitar. I did this with parts that I got from Carson Wells, as by then "Fred Gretsch Co." had ran everything headlong into the crapper, like they do most everything they touch. I had both guitars in the shop at the same time. Not that I needed the two side - by - side to compare them, but I would think that anyone with even a SLIGHT mechanical ability could see the many differances in the two. Maybe many on this forum would consider this my opinion, I although consider it a fact. And yes sir - I would BET MY LIFE ON IT. Also I might add, that set side - by - side, all things starting at the volume pedal being the same, the "Waco" sounded a little better than my "Arlington". That, as an example, is just my opinion. The reason for my reply to you is that I thought that "round two" had started, and I didn't even hear the bell! You wouldn't believe some of the "information" that I have heard, ( and read), given out as "fact" in the last almost forty years, since I started doing this steel guitar thing. I once was told for a FACT that Pete Drake did all of Connies stuff. After all, the fellow said, Pete was on about everything that "came out of Nashville then". I had a guy tell me years ago that Shot and someone else that he couldn't remember at the time started "Z. B.", sold it to Zane, and then went on to start "Sho-Bud". The best one that I can remember right now was that Hartley Peavey was a one time design engineer (sp?) for Fender, and left to start his own company because he had too many ideas shot down. These were told as fact. In closing I will say that with all do respect, and I do respect most all of you, I do not deem incorrect, wrong, bogus, or however you word it, information as worth much - no matter what the "spirit" it was offered in.
I think that I will also add that in the area that I'm from most people that know me think that I'm a pretty damn nice guy. At the same time, I'm sure that most on the forum by now who don't know me consider me a arrogant bigmouth. That's too bad - but it's my own fault and no-one elses. I'll admit to that, but then I didn't deny it in the first place. To those that I have offended, I'm sorry. This is the best that I can do. I suppose that time will tell if it's good enough or not... And let me also add on a side note that no matter what anyone may think of me personally, please remember the Shrine Hospitals - we do alot of good for kids...
Jimmie
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Jim Smith
Member From: Plano, TX, USA
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posted 05 May 2004 03:17 PM
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quote:
Can anyone comment on the additional tack weld that appears on the changers of the EMCI but not the MCI welded frames?
Sorry, I don't recall that, that could have been done after I left. Gene Fields came up with the welded frame idea, and could more than likely explain the changer weld. |
Charles Tilley
Member From: Princeton, Texas USA
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posted 06 May 2004 05:16 AM
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Personally, I have thoroughly enjoyed every bit of this. Man, this FORUM is informative.I think I will just stick with my Carter. I know it's source to be the best:::::::: MR. BUD CARTER HIMSELF. I also have a MSA by Bud.
Charles Tilley[This message was edited by Charles Tilley on 06 May 2004 at 05:22 AM.]
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Buddy Emmons
Member From: Hermitage, TN USA
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posted 06 May 2004 05:54 AM
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John,
John Birkhead added the tack weld to the changer of the EMCI to lessen the cabinet drop problem and it worked.
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Jim Smith
Member From: Plano, TX, USA
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posted 06 May 2004 06:12 AM
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Thanks Buddy!  |
Mike Richardson
Member From: Rutledge, Georgia, USA
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posted 06 May 2004 11:41 PM
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Gosh Bobbe...I should have kept my EMCI that I sold you.If you can get it back I have a nice Emmons I will swap you for it.
Mike Richardson
Emmons D-10 Lagrande ll
Nashville 1000
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Burton Lee
Member From: Denton, Texas, USA
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posted 16 May 2004 02:30 PM
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Howdy,I've been following this Waco/Arlington thread, and now I'm all confused about my guitar! I'm playing an MCI D-10. It does not appear to have a welded frame (it looks bolted together). The logo does not say Waco or otherwise. It has narrow pedals, and aluminum necks. It is a festive turquoise color (mica, I would assume). How can I tell which one I have? Should I really care? Either way, I love this guitar, and although I don't have much experience on other guitars to compare it to, I think it sounds like a dream come true. I purchased it from a gentleman in Abilene about 8 or 9 months ago. Also, I know the pickups are Bill Lawrence, but I'm not sure which ones. They have the twin blade magnets like a railroad track. Are those the 705s? Thanks!
Burton Lee
MCI D-10, Session 500
Denton, TX |
Bob Blair
Member From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
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posted 16 May 2004 08:35 PM
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Burton, that's a Waco guitar and yep, those are 705's. |
John Lazarus
Member From: Tucson, AZ.
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posted 17 May 2004 08:41 AM
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So, let me see if I've got this right....
All EMCI guitars are welded frames, since they were the last ones built in the MCI/EMCI saga. But they are not necessarily all Arlington EMCI's, since Gretsch bought the company and built some EMCI's late in the game.
All early MCI guitars, prior to the welded frame, were Waco models. These models could have either aluminum or wood necks and had bolted on front aprons of wood. This would include Curly Chalker's guitar and the MCI that Al Udeen currently has for sale on the Forum. Al's guitar says, "MCI by Carter" on the logo decal.
Finally, the welded Arlington MCI was designed by Gene Fields and is essentially the same as the later EMCI except for some very minor differences. These would be fretboard colors, tuners, tack welds, etc.
These welded MCI's fit into the timeline between the Waco and EMCI.
Is this correct? |
Nicholas Dedring
Member From: Brooklyn, New York, USA
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posted 17 May 2004 11:31 AM
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Where does the RangeXpander fit into all of this? Were they all welded? Did they come out of the Waco years, or were they made in Arlington?I think it's a model designation, but I am not sure what distinguishes/identifies them as "RangeXpander" guitars as opposed to regular Waco/Arlington MCIs. Also, other than the tack weld on the changer, what design changes were made between the MCI Arlington guitars and the EMCIs? |
Burton Lee
Member From: Denton, Texas, USA
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posted 17 May 2004 12:22 PM
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Thanks for the info!Anyone know what the Waco MCIs went for new? I'm not selling any time soon, but it'd be good to know. Tanks!
Burton Lee
MCI D-10, Session 500
Denton, TX |
Paddy Long
Member From: Christchurch, New Zealand
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posted 17 May 2004 01:49 PM
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Nicholas, my MCI is a Rangexpander and would be an Arlington job - it has the welded frame and I bought it new in 86. My guess is that it was a transitional model between the Waco guitars and the EMCI - from what I can gather, there isn't too much difference between the two later versions - Buddy was on the cover of the catalogue for the Rangexpander as well !! |
Jim Smith
Member From: Plano, TX, USA
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posted 17 May 2004 04:46 PM
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quote:
All early MCI guitars, prior to the welded frame, were Waco models.
Not true John. The Arlington MCI's didn't have the welded frame until after Gene Fields joined the company. Bud Carter left MCI to start Carter guitars and I put the complicated setups together part-time. Shortly thereafter Gene, and a little later, Red Rhodes were hired. That's when Gene experimented with the welded frame while Red experimented with some new pickup designs. That was roughly the same time that the name changed to EMCI, but I don't believe it was exactly the same time. |
John Lazarus
Member From: Tucson, AZ.
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posted 17 May 2004 09:04 PM
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Jeez Jim, this is getting complicated. I hope Bobbe really writes the book.
Let's go further. Did Gene F. design the honeycomb, extruded pedal bar I have on my EMCI and I have seen on the welded MCI's?
I know the Wacos had a simple three sided channel like an Emmons and many other guitars. The extruded pedal bar is really strong and a marvel of design. This flys in the face of the knee levers which seem to have been designed as an afterthought; really the weak link in the construction of these great guitars. Any comments on this? |
Jim Smith
Member From: Plano, TX, USA
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posted 18 May 2004 05:58 AM
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I'm kind of fuzzy on that part, but I believe Gene did design the extruded pedal bar, and extruded pedals too. Yet another design idea that he carried over to his GFI's. I'm sure he would have redesigned the knee levers too, but the company sold before he had time. |
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