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Author
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Topic: Anyone use a gauge 12 for the third sring on the E9
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compuserve
Member From: ENGLAND
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posted 30 April 2002 01:02 PM
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Would it be ok to use a gauge 12 instead of the 11 as the third string on an E9 tuning?.THANKS JIM.. |
Henry Matthews
Member From: Texarkana, Texas, USA
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posted 30 April 2002 01:16 PM
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Jim, I have tried using a 12 for the third and even though I like the sound of it, I found out that it doesn't last long enough to even bother with the difference in sound. I have however been having good luck with the 11.5 strings that I orderd from B0B. They sound good and really last longer than an 11.
Henry
Emmons P/P |
C Dixon
Member From: Duluth, GA USA
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posted 30 April 2002 01:17 PM
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Jim,A number of players use a .012 for the third string. I have heard on more than one ocassion that it lessens pre-mature breakage. Having never tried it on my D-10, I can't say. But I imagine it's worth a try. Go for it!  carl |
Jon Light
Member From: Brooklyn, NY
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posted 30 April 2002 01:19 PM
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Not a problem.
Fact: heavier string, should last longer
Fact: requires higher tension to bring to pitch, should break sooner
Fact: from what I've seen here on the forum and from my own experiences, it's pretty much a wash. Life span is comparable to an .011. Six of one, half dozen of the other. I think I get a better sound from the 12 which is why I use it. You will probably need to tune your B pedal to accomodate the new gauge.------------------
FCarter U-12 7+8E
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B Bailey Brown
Member From: San Antonio, TX (USA)
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posted 30 April 2002 01:20 PM
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It is certainly “OK” to use a .012 on the third string! I have used .012’s for more than 20 years, and I would not use anything else. I have a “heavy” attack with my right hand. Many years ago I had a problem with breaking .011’s way too often, and I could not get the sustain out of the 3rd string I wanted.I was griping about it one day and the guy that built my guitar said, “Hey B., start putting a .012 on it and see if you like it better!” I put one on the guitar and liked it a lot…and I have never used an .011 since! Keep in mind that this is a matter of personal preference, which depends on the way you play, but the .012’s work well for me. B. Bailey Brown
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Erv Niehaus
Member From: Litchfield, MN, USA
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posted 30 April 2002 01:27 PM
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By all means go to a 12 gauge for the 3rd string. I greatly prefer the fuller sound.
I buy my SIT strings from Malcolm at Discount Strings. He sells a "reinforced" 12 gauge and I wouldn't use anything else. His e-mail address is strings@apex.net You'll deal with a finer gentlemen!
Erv |
Joey Ace
Sysop From: Southern Ontario, Canada
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posted 30 April 2002 01:37 PM
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Canadian Steeler Steve Smith does on his Carter. The tone on "Desperato" (Northern Steel CD) is to die for.FWIW,I tried a 12, didn't like it. |
Terry Wendt
Member From: Nashville, TN, USA
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posted 30 April 2002 01:47 PM
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I do... have been now for 23 years... two years previous to that I changed from a .012 to an .011-.010 a few times, then in '79 went back to .012 where it remains "the most meat" for the money - Tone - Elasticity - Temperment - Longevity -
2pT
 [my opinion] ------------------
TheEarlyDays.com and appearing regularly...
Jimmy Crawford/Russ Hicks... and Buddy Emmons on Bass! aLotOfSpace.com
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Jim Eaton
Member From: Santa Susana, Ca
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posted 30 April 2002 01:57 PM
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I have used a .012 since Jeff Newman told me to back in 74'. They all break in the long run, so I like the fuller sound of the .012.
JE:-)> |
Frank Parish
Member From: Nashville,Tn. USA
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posted 30 April 2002 02:32 PM
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I've used .012's for many years. I think I read somewhere PF uses them too. |
Kenny Davis
Member From: Great State of Oklahoma
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posted 30 April 2002 03:07 PM
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.012 is the only way to go! In fact, try a .022W for it's big brother on the 6th! Lasts longer, less pedal travel, sounds better. |
Buck Reid
Member From: Nashville,TN
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posted 30 April 2002 03:30 PM
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I find that it provides better tonal balance and more definition when playing chords. I guess it could depend on what brand guitar you are playing...but with my Emmons guitars and my new JCH,i haven't had to change it any more often at all! |
jerry wallace
Member From: Artesia , NM - 35 mi from Roswell UFO CITY
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posted 30 April 2002 03:31 PM
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I have used .011 ,.0115 and .012..I agree the bigger the string, the fatter the tone..I really cant say any of these three will last longer..I think they all last about the same.. ------------------
Jerry Wallace-2001 Zum: D-10,8+6, "98 Zum: D-10,8+8,Nashville 1000,Session 500 ,Session 400 head only amp,Tubefex,ProfexII, Artesia, New Mexico
http://communities.msn.com/jerrywallacemusic http://www.jerrywallacemusic.com
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Jeff Watson
Member From: Henderson, NV. USA
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posted 30 April 2002 07:04 PM
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I tried a 14 for a while......a 12 works great. |
CHIP FOSSA
Member From: Monson, MA 01057 U.S.A.
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posted 30 April 2002 09:00 PM
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I use a .012 for my 3rdG#. I play a keyless
Williams U-12 with a very abbreviated neck.
I think it measures about 243/4" - 2' & 3/4".I don't have half the 3rd strng breakages, with this guitar and .012s, as I did with older guitars and .010s & .011s. And unless you are as altered and finessed as the likes of BE, and could probably
keep an oxtail sustaining for 5 minutes, Then an .012 has more mass to sustain than would a .010 or .011.
But there is more to sustain than just the size/diameter of a string..beware! Just my gig..ChipsAhoy |
B Cole
unregistered
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posted 30 April 2002 09:37 PM
I always used a 12 on my old Fessy which was 24 inch scale but my new Fessy is 241/4 and I aint had the nerve to try it yet cause they do hurt when they break. If anyone has tryed it on a 241/4 scale let me know how it worked out other then keylessBill Cole |
Kenny Davis
Member From: Great State of Oklahoma
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posted 30 April 2002 09:37 PM
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I forgot to mention that an .012 will bring more blood than the smaller diameter strings! |
Joe Henry
Member From: Ebersberg, Germany
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posted 01 May 2002 12:08 AM
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I use .012 for the 3rd string because it works very well on the 24" scale of my ShoBud. Together with .022 wound on the 6th and .018 on the 5th the whole tuning seems more balanced overall and a somewhat fuller sound. A great advice I got from Ricky Davis. Also, the .012 won´t break as often as .011. However, I´m sure it has to do with the short scale; I tried one on my old steel with a longer scale once and it would break very quickly.Regards, Joe H. |
Rainer Hackstaette
Member From: Bohmte, Germany
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posted 01 May 2002 04:07 AM
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I use a .012 on both of my Sierras. I like the slightly fatter sound. The guitars are keyless and have a 25" scale. I haven´t had any string breakage whatsoever on these guitars. I don´t think scale length or gauge are major factors in string breakage - it´s the diameter of the changer axle. A bent string is a ... - no, I won´t go into that again.  Rainer ------------------
Remington D 10 8+7, Sierra Crown D 10 gearless 8+8, Sierra Session S 14 gearless 8+5, Peavey Session 400 LTD
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Erv Niehaus
Member From: Litchfield, MN, USA
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posted 01 May 2002 07:28 AM
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I also tried a wound 22 gauge for the 6th but didn't have very good luck. I drop that string a whole tone with a knee lever and my Emmons LeGrande just couldn't handle the change. So went with a plain 22 gauge and am very satisfied with that arrangement.
Uff-da! |
Brad Burch
Member From: Athens, Ga USA
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posted 01 May 2002 09:07 AM
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I tried a 12 once on my Shobud and it didn't last an hour of casual playing. I agree with Kenny Davis in respect to the blood. When that string broke it cut my right hand almost deep enough for a stitch or two not to mention the scratch it put on the guitar players arm. Needless to say, I never tried a 12 again! |
Kenny Davis
Member From: Great State of Oklahoma
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posted 01 May 2002 09:29 AM
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The guitar player probably deserved it! |
Michael Johnstone
Member From: Sylmar,Ca. USA
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posted 01 May 2002 11:36 AM
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As far as scale lengths go when it comes to string tension,it's not the changer-to-nut distance that's important - it's the changer-to-tuner distance.That's why a 24" scale keyed guitar has MORE string tension than a 25" keyless guitar - there's more actual string length on a keyed guitar.Especially the middle strings on a 12 or 14 string.The 3rd string on a 24" keyed guitar extends between 3" and 3&1/2" beyond the nut roller bringing the total 3rd string length under tension to 27+" whereas the strings on a keyless only go around 3/4" past the nut.So on a 25" scale keyless like my Sierra,the 3rd string length under tension is only 25&3/4" and on a 24" keyless like a Willy or Kline,it would only be around 24&3/4". The longer the string,the more tension is required to bring it up to a given pitch and if a string is too tight,lobing is inhibited and sustain is diminished - therefore,if a .012 was gonna work out as a 3rd string,phisics dictate that it should last longer(and sound better)on a keyless. -MJ- |
John Cadeau
Member From: Surrey,B.C. Canada
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posted 01 May 2002 11:48 AM
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I've been using a .012 on my LeGrande for years and had very little string breakage. Out of curiosity a while back I tried a .011 it lasted four jobs, I tried it again, the same results. I'm back to the .012 so far its lasted 2 months. |
Earnest Bovine
Member From: Los Angeles CA USA
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posted 01 May 2002 11:54 AM
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The 25" scale requires a higher tension than 24" scale. The non-vibrating part makes no difference to the tension.There IS less changer movement on the keyless, especially on the middle strings, and that would explain why you get less string breakage with keyless. |
Michael Johnstone
Member From: Sylmar,Ca. USA
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posted 01 May 2002 05:26 PM
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"The non-vibrating part makes no difference to the tension." How do you figure that? (actually the other part IS vibrating and that's why some guys weave felt or foam rubber around that part of the strings but that's another issue) Isn't the presence of the nut roller on the overall string length the same as a bar placed across the strings at a given place? -MJ- |
Earnest Bovine
Member From: Los Angeles CA USA
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posted 01 May 2002 10:58 PM
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Mike, you seemed to say two contradictory things: quote:
24" scale keyed guitar has MORE string tension than a 25" keyless guitar {/quote]and[quote]The longer the string,the more tension is required to bring it up to a given pitch
The second statement is true. The first one seems to say the opposite.
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Michael Johnstone
Member From: Sylmar,Ca. USA
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posted 02 May 2002 09:08 AM
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What I meant is that a 24" scale keyed guitar is really a 27" guitar(changer-to-tuner)and a 25" scale keyless guitar is really a 25&3/4" guitar(changer-to-tuner).So there is less tension on a 25&3/4" string tuned to G# than a 27+" string of the same guage tuned to G#. |
C Dixon
Member From: Duluth, GA USA
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posted 02 May 2002 09:49 AM
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Michael,You are correct. A 24 and 1/4" scale keyless will have less breakage (everything else being equal) than a 24 and 1/4" keyed guitar. The reason is, even though the nut to changer length is the SAME, the total length of pulled string is very different. Therefore, the tension is quite a bit more on the keyed than the keyless. carl
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KENNY FORBESS
Member From: peckerwood point, w. tn.
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posted 02 May 2002 10:30 AM
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I had an old Maverick I used a 12 guage on one time, till I completely ran outta shells Actually, I do use 12 guage strings on my p/p Emmons and my Derby,
i like the tone better and they stay there longer. ------------------ I love my Black 66 Bolt-on !
kp [This message was edited by KENNY FORBESS on 02 May 2002 at 10:31 AM.]
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compuserve
Member From: ENGLAND
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posted 02 May 2002 10:45 AM
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Thanks guys put a 12 on the third like it bought a dozen more .GOD BLESS JIM |
Drew Grice
Member From: New Bern, NC, 28562, USA
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posted 03 May 2002 10:45 AM
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Jeff Newman switched me to 12 g. Like the tone better. As for breakage I rigged a little counter to the guitar for a while with both 11 and 12 strings. There is no appreciable difference in the # of bends befor breakage. They both break between 950 and 975 bends. Did this on an Emmons LII, D-10 |
bill dearmore
Member From: Belton,Tx.,USA
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posted 04 May 2002 12:07 AM
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I believe the only thing that has not been addressed in this thread is cabnet drop- more tension,more cabnet drop. Ugh! |
Doug Seymour
Member From: Jamestown NY USA
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posted 04 May 2002 05:25 AM
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I like Kenny's post best of all! "A 12 gauge
on a Maverick til I ran out of shells!" OOOO!
that's a good one! Should be about the best thing I can think of for a Maverick! Sorry,
guys. I take that back, they do get you started & hooked on having pedals, so thay can't be all bad! OK, how many were made over the years? The Carter starter is today's
greatest pedal for beginners isn't it? & in today's dollars it may be no more expensive than the Maverick was in it's day & the Carter will certainly get you farther down the road if you are thinking E9th. 4 knees?
How can you beat that! |
Brian Herder
Member From: Philadelphia, Pa. USA
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posted 04 May 2002 07:23 AM
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A few years ago, Ricky Davis suggested I try a .012 on the third, and a .024w on the sixth. The sound is fat and even, and I have only broken the third, maybe 3 times since. The guitar is an 70s Pro ll...and I am way too cheap to change strings on any sort of a regular basis. |
Don Townsend
Member From: Turner Valley, Alberta Canada
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posted 04 May 2002 09:44 AM
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A whole new research topic for Bill!!!
Would a thicker string require a "Lucky 8"?[This message was edited by Don Townsend on 04 May 2002 at 09:46 AM.] |
jim milewski
Member From: stowe, vermont
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posted 09 May 2002 04:44 PM
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I just started using a .012 and now a .015 on the 4th, fatter sound |
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