The key advantage I was looking for was to provide easy access to the key progressions and modulations that are common in jazz. Of course that means II-V-I and VI-II-V-I and cycle of fifths II-V (e.g. Gm7-C7-Cm7-F7-Fm7-Bb7). I also wanted easy access to the IV and IVm which are used so often.

This copedant not only meets that need, I can play most any jazz tune with the first two pedals and two knees. The other three pedals are still valuable, but not essential.

Here's a quick overview of how this copedant can be used. I'll demonstrate with "I Can't Give You Anything But Love" in the key of G.

The A section is a I-VI-II-V progression (G6, E9, Am7, D9). G6 is open at 7th fret, E9 is at the 11th fret with pedal 5, Am7 is at the 9th fret with pedal 4 and 5, and D9 is at the 9th fret with pedal 5.

The B section is a typical II-V-I modulation up a fourth (Dm7, G7, C6) and then another modulation up a whole step resolving back to G (Em7, A7, Am7, D7, G6). Em7 is open at the 5th fret, G7 is at the 7th fret with pedal 4, and C6 is at the 9th fret with pedal 4 and 5. The rest is just a continuation of the same.

All of that, and I haven't touched any knee levers.

Here's a quick diagram of some important chord positions for the key of G using pedals 1 and 2 and RKR.

G6 - 7th fret, open
G7 - 7th fret, pedal 4
Gm7 - 7th fret, pedal 4 and 5
Gm6 (also Bb9) - 7th fret, pedal 5
E9 - 11th fret, pedal 5
Am7 - 9th fret, pedal 4 and 5
D9 - 9th fret, pedal 5
C6 - 9th fret, pedal 4 and 5
Cm6 - 9th fret, pedal 4 and 5, RKR

There is much more this copedant is capable of. I'd be interested in any comments you might have and am eager to answer any questions.

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Stephen O'Brien
skobrien@skobrien.com

[This message was edited by Stephen O'Brien on 30 April 2002 at 05:49 PM.]

anyway, it's my preference and nothing more than that.

major 9, never use it for comping, might use it for chord solos, but in the rare occasion that I do need it, I'd substitute the m7 a third up, which is the same chord without the root.

Dominant 7b9, can get it with pedals 7&8 with RKL (leave out 4th and 8th string). This voicing omits the third, which is fine.

Dominant 7#9, can be had easily by playing the minor 7th of the same chord. Cm7 = C7#9 if you leave out the third, which is always ok on dominants. The raised 9 is the same as a flatted third.

I never user a dominant 11, but I commonly use a minor 11. 11ths just work out better with minor chords as a rule. For a minor 11, use the pedal 7. This gives you a Minor 11 omitting the fifth, which is ok for an extended minor.

Dominant 13: Dominant 13ths are troublesome because in order for them to sound right, you have to voice the b7 and the 13 (which are just 1/2 tone a part) with an octave in between them, otherwise the chord sounds like crap. I would probably substitute a minor 11 starting at the third (C13=Em11 without C root or 9th) which can be had with no pedals by eliminating strings 4 and 8. Unfortunately, this voicing puts the 13 down low, when it should be up high. If this were a chord I used a lot in comping, I might make a special accomodation for it.

Let me sum up by saying that altered and extended chords are more important in some types of jazz then in others. Lots of jazz players prefer simpler forms, especially for comping. I designed my copedant to allow me to deal more easily with 95% of the situations I encounter -- I'll finesse the other 5%.

(sorry about the edits, didn't proof read before posting)

[This message was edited by Stephen O'Brien on 01 May 2002 at 11:49 AM.]

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you always pull the octave notes on the same lever. This is the antithesis of C6 which normally does not pull the octaves together. That's a key reason why on a standard C6 you can get a lot of dissonant chords, which of course is critical, as you know, for many jazz voicings (Maj7, 7b9, m7b9, 13th, 13b9, 7#9, 13#11, etc. etc.).

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b0b said:

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There are lots of jazz chords that have different notes in each octave, like the 7b9, 7#9, maj9, 11, 13, etc. I don't see how you can play them when all of your changes work in octaves

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James said:

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Bobby Lee is dead on. There it is simply put.

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So what am I, chopped liver?

corned beef is my preference

[This message was edited by Stephen O'Brien on 01 May 2002 at 12:33 PM.]

The thing I disliked about the standard C6 is that it made the typical stuff, the stuff that you do most of the time, hard or at least klunky (in my opinion). So, you end up relying heavily on diminished substitutions because it's about the only thing that's always handy.

What I think I achieved here is something that let's me sit down at a chart and get through it without spending a lot of time figuring out voicings. I believe that a lot of the complex voicings can be had, but if I've lost some, I'm more than happy if it means I can get through the meat-and-potato playing with ease.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

[This message was edited by Herb Steiner on 01 May 2002 at 02:17 PM.]

I could think of a few pulls that are not generally used.

I'd like to make a couple of points before I sign off.

First, copedant's aren't the key to playing good jazz. The best jazz steel player on the planet is Tom Morrell (and I state that as a fact) and he has no pedals and no knee levers! I have no doubt but that there are a lot of chords he can't play, but his music sure doesn't suffer from it.

Second, a copedant should support the style you want to play. If I wanted to be the Thelonius Monk or Bud Powell of steel guitar, my copedant probably wouldn't cut it. I aspire more to Teddy Wilson, Lionel Hampton, and Count Basie and I think my copedant works for that style.

Lastly, it's true that guys such as Doug J., Buddy, John Hughey and many others are great jazz players, but from what I've seen about their setups, they don't all use the same copedant. To each his own, I guess. That's the truly interesting thing about steel guitar -- it's the most democratic instrument in the world.

Now, if I don't sit down right away at my steel guitar, I'm going to itch for the rest of the day.

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Lastly, it's true that guys such as Doug J., Buddy, John Hughey and many others are great jazz players, but from what I've seen about their setups, they don't all use the same copedant

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I know you want to end this disucssion, but as far at this comment goes, I'm pretty sure that their copedents, and the musical dynamics and harmonic capabilities inherent in them, are FAR, FAR closer to each other than yours is to theirs. But I do wish you the best in exploring yours and I'm still interested in seeing something interesting that you can do in yours that you feel can't be done in the standard C6 with a few knee levers. But if you've had enough of this thread, that's fine with me.

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I'd be interested in any comments you might have

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Be careful what you wish for, it may come true.

[This message was edited by Jeff Lampert on 02 May 2002 at 06:07 AM.]