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Author
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Topic: What the weight on the different D-10`s?
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Dag Wolf
Member From: Bergen, Norway
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posted 12 March 2003 01:44 AM
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I would like to know how heavy your D-10 steel are.
I have a D-10 Zum, a Franklin and a JCH
The JCH are a heavier steel than the Zum and the Franklin are a bit lighter than the Zum.Now, the case on some steels are just too heavy to use on local gigs. If I fly to the US I prefer to use my flight case -only problem it`s over 20 pounds - just the case. I would really like a light weight steel and case.
I noticed that Carter are pretty light. How are the Williams, Fessenden and so on. How about the MSA classic SS (super light)? Dag
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Bob Hoffnar
Member From: Brooklyn, NY
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posted 12 March 2003 08:12 AM
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Dag,
I'm looking into getting a fly guitar myself. A single neck would work for the main band I'm touring with. What have any of you guys come up with ? Bob |
David Doggett
Member From: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA
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posted 12 March 2003 10:42 AM
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GFIs have got to be one of the lightest pedal steels made. Ask Bobbe Seymour at Steel Guitar Nashville about the weight thing, he knows them all. |
Bobby Snell
Member From: Austin, Texas
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posted 12 March 2003 01:58 PM
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My Williams D10 (keys) is 36 lbs w/o case. |
Kevin Hatton
Member From: Amherst, N.Y.
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posted 12 March 2003 02:03 PM
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GFI. Best sounding light weight guitar out there. Call Bobbe Seymour 615-822-5555. Have you tried putting wheels on your steel case? I couldn't move my ZB or Sho-Bud without them It makes transporting them a breeze and totally negates the weight issue. |
Marc Weller
Member From: Upland, Ca. 91784
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posted 12 March 2003 03:32 PM
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My Sho Bud Fingertip is only 85 lbs. in the case. MW |
Bobby Boggs
Member From: Pendleton SC
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posted 12 March 2003 04:59 PM
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Dag, it will be very hard to find a guitar that weighs less than the Franklin.My Fessenden weighed as much as my JCH.I can't comment on the Williams or MSA SS. |
Chuck Martin
Member From: Mc Lean, Virginia
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posted 12 March 2003 05:46 PM
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Dag,The MSA Classic SS is about 40 lbs without the case. The new D-10 Millenium is advertised as only 32 lbs without the case. Chuck |
Dag Wolf
Member From: Bergen, Norway
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posted 12 March 2003 06:22 PM
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Thanks for the inputs! Keep them coming.The Franklin I have are a SD10 and are so light.
I will weigh my steels the next time I pack them down and post it here. I know that ShoBud LDG`s body are pretty light but the pedal bar are very heavy. I`ve seen a few Franklins were the inner legs have been cut off. There`s no reason for the inne legs to be that long so I guess that about all regular pedal steels one can get the weight down by cutting the inner leg down. If you do it`s probalby wise to leave some more than you need if one decide to sell and the new buyer want to raise the steel an inch or two. Vintage steels may drop in value if you cut the legs. Dag |
Al Marcus
Member From: Cedar Springs,MI USA
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posted 12 March 2003 09:47 PM
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My MSA "Universal" S12 8/5 wood lacquer weighs 39 lbs out of the case. My D10 Carter weighed 36 Lbs out of the case and my S10 Carter weighed 28 lbs out of the case.They were 26 lbs but they have solid cross rods instead of hollow and adds 2 lbs to the S10. The GFI S12 7/5 weighed 31 lbs out of the case. The Williams S12 weighed 30 lbs out of the case.
The new MSA Millenium D10 weighs 32 lbs out of the case and has a great sound.That disproves the old theory that it has to be heavy to sound good.....al  [This message was edited by Al Marcus on 12 March 2003 at 09:49 PM.] |
Dag Wolf
Member From: Bergen, Norway
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posted 13 March 2003 02:42 AM
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My SD-10 Franklin 4 knee 4 foot are 23,5 kg which should equals about 48 pounds in the case.
The case are 9 kg - about 18-19 pounds which make the steel around 30 pounds.If the new D-10 MSA are 32 pounds with 4 more foot pedals and one more knee lever - I must say thats pretty, pretty good My case are not a typical heavy one but I wish they could come up with a light weight case. I think 9 - 10 pounds would be great. My Zum 1984 model D-10 8 ped 9 knee are 30kg - 62lbs in the original case. Case is 9kg - 18-19 lbs which makes the steel 21kg - 43-44lbs. Do I have my math right?  Are the Dell cases light weight? Dag[This message was edited by Dag Wolf on 13 March 2003 at 04:47 AM.] |
Reece Anderson
Member From: Keller Texas USA
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posted 13 March 2003 06:59 AM
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After extensive experimentation, we at MSA have concluded that guitars weighing less than 30 pounds have the possibility of beginning to compromise stability. If one agrees with our findings, the final conclusion is that the long standing weigh issue relative to MSA guitars has been resolved by the use of CCT, and now the possibility of further reducing the weight issue could be improved only by the case manufacturers.[This message was edited by Reece Anderson on 13 March 2003 at 07:00 AM.] |
Recluse
Member From: Cleveland, Ohio, USA
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posted 13 March 2003 08:02 AM
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I bet there is an engineer or two with an opinion on this.With stability becoming a factor in light weight guitars, has any one tried having the back legs on a compound angle, pointing out as well as back. It might look a little funny but a couple of inches on each leg should add a great deal of lateral stability. Then the weight would only be a big factor on the vertical levers.
Other than appearence, why not?
I am onsidering doing this on an Excel rebuild so I would like to know if it has been tried and rejected in the past. Thanks in advance:
Steve Bailey
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Jim Smith
Member From: Plano, TX, USA
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posted 13 March 2003 08:08 AM
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It works on non-pedal steels, so it seems like it should work. Go for it! |
Joe Henry
Member From: Ebersberg, Germany
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posted 13 March 2003 12:43 PM
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Dag,
1 kilo equals 0.45359 pounds (US) so I think those steels you mentioned will actually be a bit more (in pounds)Joe H. |
Dag Wolf
Member From: Bergen, Norway
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posted 13 March 2003 01:24 PM
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Joe, I was afraid someone noticed it...... |
Recluse
Member From: Cleveland, Ohio, USA
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posted 13 March 2003 05:19 PM
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Oops! 1 kilo = 2.2046 lb. or
1 lb.= .4536 kiloJoe must have the Day setup. My Millennium weighs about 2 1/4 stone. Steve Bailey |
Johnny Cox
Member From: The great state of Texas
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posted 14 March 2003 10:02 AM
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Recluse, at less than 30 pounds the vertical knee levers are the issue. In order to operate vertical knee levers in the heat of battle, one must be able to engage it without worrying if the guitar will lift off the ground. The Millennium S12 is 30 pounds with an 8&5 pedal configuration. S10 and S12 with fewer pedals are also maintained at 30 pounds. Side to side stability is not an issue with the Millennium. My guitar is a D10 9&8 and weighs 39 pounds out of case.------------------
The Steel Dr.
Johnny Cox P.S.D.
MSA Customer Service
www.msapedalsteels.com
www.thetimejumpers.com
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Joe Henry
Member From: Ebersberg, Germany
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posted 14 March 2003 10:12 AM
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OOOps! Sorry about that, folks. Of course it is the other way round: 1 pound = 0.45359 kilos. But then I was never that good at maths...Joe H. |
Dag Wolf
Member From: Bergen, Norway
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posted 14 March 2003 11:44 AM
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Johnny this is interesting.Your new MSA are pretty loaded. 39lbs out of the case you state. After getting my figures hopefully right my 1984 Zum D-10, 8 foot and 9 knees are 21kg which equals 46lbs. If this is right that makes my Zum only 7.lbs or 3,15kg more than the new MSA. Does this sound right?? I agree with Maurice that the case would be the place to look for improvement about the weight issue.
Looks like the case itself are about 1/3 of the weight - and that too much, IMHO. Dag |
Sage
Member From: Boulder, Colorado
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posted 18 March 2003 12:30 PM
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The one and only Harmos pedal steel (S13) weighs 25 lbs. out of the case. Since the body weighs less than a pound, most of the weight is down low. Having a wider stance also helps with stability. Robert Randolph has not complained about it dancing around- but just to be sure I encouraged him to put a little loop of gaffer's tape under each rubber foot- it does help. Some early pictures of the prototype can be seen on our website. I'll get some pictures of the final version with RR up when I can.
T. Sage Harmos
Harmos Steel Guitars http://www.harmosmusic.com
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David L. Donald
Member From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand
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posted 18 March 2003 05:22 PM
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My Sho-Bud Pro II is shipping at 85lbs |
Al Marcus
Member From: Cedar Springs,MI USA
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posted 21 June 2006 12:17 PM
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My Sho-Bud Pro 1 S10 with 6/5 Weighs 34 lbs out of the case all setup to play. It doesn't move....al ------------------
My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/
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Olli Haavisto
Member From: Jarvenpaa,Finland
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posted 21 June 2006 12:44 PM
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Hi Dag ,Zum D-10 8x8 31 kg in case
Williams D-10 8x7 27 kg in case
Williams keyless S-12 7x5 21 kg in case Guess which one I fly with ? ------------------
Olli Haavisto,
Finland
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Willis Vanderberg
Member From: Bradenton, FL, USA
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posted 21 June 2006 02:22 PM
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SKB makes a drum trap case that works very well for a D-10.It has wheels on it and weighs about 10 pounds. If you are flying you can put the pedal board and legs in your luggage and the guitar in the overhead bin. just make sure you are not sitting under it.for all other purposes there is plenty of room for everything in the case.
I think they are about $ 169.00 at Muscians Friend and the other stores. Old Bud |
Rick Schmidt
Member From: Carlsbad, CA. USA
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posted 21 June 2006 02:45 PM
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Bottom line is 50 Lbs maximum for for one piece of luggage here in the states. Most flights only allow 2 pc check in and 2 pc carry on. Anything else will cost you. Don't know what the limits are for the smaller Euro airlines like Ryan Air or Easy Jet are these days, but my experience was that they would'nt cut any slack whatsoever. I did a gig with Gerry Hogan last year, and they charged the equivalent of $600 (or more?) to fly his D10 JCH from London to Holland. A relatively short trip. It was such a shock, that we had to re-route the whole rest of the trip to driving the steel back to the UK. This is a big reason why I'm only taking gigs as a bass player when flying is involved. 
A one or two way trip is one thing, but an entire tour is quite another. I'm a dyed in the wool double neck player, but if I were to ever get a serious flying gig again, I'd be seriously looking at an MSA U12. Good luck Dag!! Rick (owner of the worlds heaviest D12 Dekley 10+6)[This message was edited by Rick Schmidt on 21 June 2006 at 02:48 PM.] |
Donny Hinson
Member From: Balto., Md. U.S.A.
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posted 21 June 2006 04:28 PM
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My MSA Millennium D10, 8+7, is 51 pounds in the case, and 31 pounds out of the case. I wouldn't want the guitar itself any lighter. (A little bigger, or laid out differently, perhaps, but not any heavier or lighter.) |
James Morehead
Member From: Durant, Oklahoma, USA
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posted 21 June 2006 05:25 PM
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My refurbished Shobud D-10 "The Professional" weighs 48 lbs out of the case. I may look into cutting back the inner legs. I just shipped an original Shobud D-10 "The Professional", and it weigh 80 lbs in the original case. |
Luke Morell
Member From: Ramsey Illinois, USA
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posted 21 June 2006 07:30 PM
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My BMI d10 with 8 floor and 6 knee levers weighs 80 lbs in the case. I'm looking for something lighter. |
Pat Kelly
Member From: Wentworthville, New South Wales, Australia
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posted 21 June 2006 09:04 PM
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If you want a light guitar, buy a light guitar.
Apres: Dont complain about the guitar. |
Per Berner
Member From: Skövde, Sweden
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posted 21 June 2006 10:33 PM
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I just sold my Emmons Legrande II, D10 8+5, and the buyer wanted to know the weight so I checked. On its own, it weighed 19.5 kg, 29 kg in the Thomas case.------------------
´75 Emmons p/p D10 8+4, ca '72 AWH Custom D10 8+3, Hybrid Zum coming soon, Peavey Nashville 1000 |
Ron Steenwijk
Member From: Greensburg,PA
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posted 22 June 2006 03:11 AM
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I think that todays steels are made as light as they can get them.Look at the different kind of materials builders are using.
Builders try everything to get the weight of the steel guitar down and still sell a good looking and sounding Steel guitar.Ron[This message was edited by Ronald Steenwijk on 22 June 2006 at 03:20 AM.] |
Fred Justice
Member From: Globe Arizona, Copper Capital Of The World
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posted 22 June 2006 06:14 AM
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Like Reece Anderson stated, the weight issue for the pedal steel has pretty much been settled and the ball is in the field of the case builder.
I build cases for a lot of different PSG, and done a lot of test runs and research prior to coming up with the case I now produce. My finding are that if you just want something to carry your PSG around in, a 2 pound gig bag will work. However, if you want to protect your PSG while carrying it around, a hard case is the way to go.
The bottom line here, if you want to take the risk out of damage to you PSG you need a case with some strength to it and strength = lb's. Our case weight's in at 19.0
(average weight)and has the strength to carry and protect your PSG under normal every day use. If you get any lighter, you lose strength.------------------
Fred Justice,
Fred's Music www.fredjusticemusic.com
Rains Steel Guitars
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Erv Niehaus
Member From: Litchfield, MN, USA
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posted 22 June 2006 07:50 AM
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If you want the guitar w/case to weight less, consider split cases. Guitar in one case and legs, pedal bar and rods in another. I have a D-10 Fulawka, which is quite heavy and that's the way Ed Fulawka handles the situation.  [This message was edited by Erv Niehaus on 22 June 2006 at 07:51 AM.] |
David Doggett
Member From: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA
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posted 22 June 2006 08:12 AM
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As I understand Reece and Johnny C., it's not the kind of stability problem that splaying the legs will help. It's that you don't want the instrument to lift or scoot across the floor when you hit the levers.------------------
Student of the Steel: Zum uni, Fender tube amps, squareneck and roundneck resos, tenor sax, keyboards[This message was edited by David Doggett on 22 June 2006 at 08:12 AM.]
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A. J. Schobert
Member From: Cincinnati OHIO WHO DEY???
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posted 22 June 2006 10:05 AM
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When I bought my guitar I didn't care about how light it was It has legs it will stand on its own just fine. I like a heavier guitar myself, the heavey guitars is a gibson les paul strapped around ya for about 4 hours! I can see where flying could be an issue. |
Sidney Malone
Member From: Buna, TX
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posted 22 June 2006 08:02 PM
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Maybe it's time for a Carbon Fiber case?? |
Willis Vanderberg
Member From: Bradenton, FL, USA
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posted 23 June 2006 06:14 AM
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If some one could come up with the proper inserts or support material the SKB drum trap case is ideal..check it out.
SKB 36 X 11 X 8. $ 179.00. |
Randy Beavers
Member From: Lebanon,TN 37090
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posted 23 June 2006 10:54 AM
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Let's see if I can figure this out.Me plus the guitar on the scales weighs: Oh WOW!
Me without the guitar: You got to be kidding!
Subtract me from me with guitar: Not near enough! |
Ray Minich
Member From: Limestone, New York, USA
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posted 23 June 2006 11:33 AM
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Dekley D-10: need Saturn 5 launch vehicle to move it across room.[This message was edited by Ray Minich on 23 June 2006 at 12:03 PM.] |
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