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  Angled Front Mount Fretboard (Page 1)

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Author Topic:   Angled Front Mount Fretboard
Bill Hankey
Member

From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

posted 30 March 2003 07:50 AM     profile     

I cannot overstress the unlimited potential that the front mounted fretboard is capable of delivering to whomever. beginners, or top pros, no matter: all would realize the delight of visualizing the nose of the bar, as it appears to touch the desired fret, and always with a clear visible selection of proper bar placement. I'm at the present, contemplating placing the fretboard, which is approximately 1/3 the width of a standard size board, further to the front, as it presents no problems, even inches away from the picking area above the strings. The additional spacing will give the player the liberty of palm blocking, and full chordal brushings.

I have felt the full impact of a lack of interest within circles of bona fide musicians. I can only say that this "idea" originated here in my home, and it's a permanent fixture now, and will always be featured on my steel guitar.

Bill H.

Mike Perlowin
Member

From: Los Angeles CA

posted 30 March 2003 09:39 AM     profile     
Bill, I suggest you bring the guitar to St Louis and Dallas and set up a booth and let people see the invention and try it for themselves. People need to experience thing like this firsthand. Maybe your invention(s) will catch on, maybe not. But talking about them on the forum isn't going to convince anybody. Even pictures won't do it.

I saw pictures of wrist levers. and I had read about them, but I wasn't interested till I tried one out, and as soon as I did, I wanted one and eventually had them installed on both guitars.

It was the experience of playing with one that convinced me, not the pictures, not what I read.

David Mason
Member

From: Cambridge, MD, USA

posted 30 March 2003 10:17 AM     profile     
What are you looking for, from us? Do you have a completed product you want to sell, do you want some other players to try it out? I saw the picture last time around and like the idea, but what do you want? If you can bring it in at a reasonable cost I will buy one (Carter single neck, 24" scale).
Bobby Lee
Sysop

From: Cloverdale, North California, USA

posted 30 March 2003 10:49 AM     profile     
How about a matching one on the back, so that the player can also line up the heel of the bar to keep the bar straight?
John Cox
Member

From: Bryan, Texas, USA

posted 30 March 2003 11:26 AM     profile     
How about a lighted one for dark stages?
Bill Hankey
Member

From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

posted 30 March 2003 12:43 PM     profile     

Fellow steel guitarists,

Thank you for the great thoughts that you have shared on the Angled Fretboard thread. I'm very happy in knowing that virtually all of you are kind and sharing fellow musicians. I was surprised today when a renewed rush of energy allowed me to realize that there is no need for excessive bulk in the dimensions of the proposed fretboard. At the very present, I am about to scribe the frets on a fretboard length of 3/4 " x 3/4" angular aluminum, that 3/32" in thickness. It will be necessary to cut away a short tapered strip where the wider part of the "neck" gradually juts outward, (about 4"). I discovered that the compact fretboard should amaze those who put it to the test. The jewels can come later, after the efficacy has proven itself. The compact fretboard will rest on the outer edge of the E9th cabinet.

Bill H.

chas smith
Member

From: Encino, CA, USA

posted 30 March 2003 01:31 PM     profile     
Why not just learn how to play the guitar as it is, a lot of other guys have proven that it's possible.....
Bill Hankey
Member

From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

posted 30 March 2003 02:28 PM     profile     

S.G.F.M.,

It took very little time to test the trim angular aluminum fretboard that measures a mere 3/4 of an inch in height. I'm positively 100% satisfied with the surprising results.
I breezed through "Blue Spanish Eyes", and "The Other Woman" with relative ease. What an absolute joy to meet with success on a project that required a bit of sorting out the unknown minor details, such as size, and configuration.

Thanks John for the lighted aspect. It has never occurred to a club owner that visual contact is part of playing a steel guitar. The recesses of the angled aluminum, will house small connecting wires, should additional features be installed within the fretboard.

Bill H.

Stephen Gambrell
Member

From: Ware Shoals, South Carolina, USA

posted 30 March 2003 05:32 PM     profile     
How 'bout some little monitor speakers, angled back toward yourself?
Donny Hinson
Member

From: Balto., Md. U.S.A.

posted 30 March 2003 05:40 PM     profile     
Bill, your "angled fretboard" is probably unnecessarily bulky and complex. To wit: if all you wnat to do is identify the fret's position based on a "point" at the tip of the bar, all we really need is an illuminated "dot" (a small L.E.D. will do fine) on the guitar approximately .675" from the first string.

In like fashion, a battery-operated laser-pointing device built into the bar could also be aligned to shine on a dowel mounted in a similar position to your "angled fretboard". If you're just trying to line up one point with another, "lines" or frets become inconsequential, and planting one "dot" squarely on another should be quite sufficient.

ebb
Member

From: nj

posted 30 March 2003 06:26 PM     profile     
sounds like a chick magnet to me
Bill Hankey
Member

From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

posted 31 March 2003 03:50 AM     profile     

John,

You can see the reason for omitting "extras" from an advancement in steel guitar technology. I have visited several bands here in the Berkshires, who have a preference for a darkened hall. Imagine trying to enjoy watching the steel guitarist who is slightly visible, when the lead guitarist, or bass player takes one or two steps to the side. Chances are the steel guitarist would appreciate shedding some light on his/her valuable instrument. Someone pulled that darkened hall routine on one of my first "gigs". I returned the following night with a small desk lamp mounted at the tuning keys end of my steel. The preferred use of stage lighting in more recent times, has provided ample lighting to the players on stage. I removed the small lamp, but it's kept in a safe place, in the event that someone has a penchant to lower the lighting in some little cafe'.

Simplicity is the route that I'm following in the course of developing the angular metal "Fretboard". I would like to stress that any complicated electrical wizardry is not to be considered, and will be left to areas where it is more aptly applied. This creation is very understandable in its presentation. I became dismayed while playing the song called "The Other Women" some time ago. When I tried to "emulate" the B.E. part of the song, where he uses the 3rd and 5th backward glisses, I noticed the difficulty in locating the bar squarely over the 10th fret, due to the obliteration of the fret by hand and bar. From that experience, my thoughts kept returning to the possibility of overcoming that existing handicap. The front mounted 3/4" angular installation has more than satisfied the need for proper bar placement. All that remains is creative designing of the fretting configurations.

Bill H.

Richard Gonzales
Member

From: FITCHBURG,MA USA

posted 31 March 2003 05:35 AM     profile     
Bill ! What is the problem you are trying to solve?? Many times we have an excellent solution looking for a problem.
John Cox
Member

From: Bryan, Texas, USA

posted 31 March 2003 07:30 AM     profile     
Bill,
Just trying to help,others have told me they
had this similar problem and I thought I'd
bring it up.I have built a cup (beer)holder
that clips to the leg of my guitar,after the
guys in my band saw this I ended up building moore,so my piont is any invention can be useful and I'll might come up with a light
of some type.


J.C.

Eric West
Member

From: Portland, Oregon, USA

posted 31 March 2003 07:41 AM     profile     
Possibly a gated stimulizer that would, in addition to Mr Hinson's suggestion, allow a mild electric shock to the "player" if the laser dot was not squarely on the dowel pin. Possibly applying more current to the left butt cheek if flat, and the right one if sharp. I suppose a glissando sensor and a vibrato window would eliminate un-needed discomfort when a guy ( or gal) was playing "Farewell Party". On the other hand...

A couple of my buddies and I were developing a "sphincternome" for application to the percussion section. Without giving away specifics for patent purposes it was basically a marriage betweeen a Sears Electric Fence "stimulation unit", a Seth Thomas metronome, rubber coated wires and a stainless steel washable electrode and toe-clamp ground. Stimulation free periods would be gained my playing the flamadiddles and paradiddles within a certain set tempo window.

"The World is Yours, and All that's in it."

We should all be glad that nobody discouraged Eli Whitney I suppose..

EJL

John Cox
Member

From: Bryan, Texas, USA

posted 31 March 2003 07:54 AM     profile     
Fine Eric,you come up with something.
Bill Hankey
Member

From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

posted 31 March 2003 08:21 AM     profile     

John,

Actually, Eric has "come up with something." He has proven that nothing is more thought provoking, than a person who is capable of evoking humorous outcries to others, by grabbing their attention, and leading them astray into a wilderness of unrelated scenarios. Our comedians have a very special place in everyday American life.

Bill H.

Bob Hayes
Member

From: Church Hill,Tenn,USA

posted 31 March 2003 09:29 AM     profile     
I've known Bill Hankey for over 20 years as a freind and have Known of him for over 40. In reading some of the post on Bills' endevours..I get the feeling that some of you formites may think that Bill is a little excentric. Bill is devoted to the pedal steel guitar..and is always trying to solve some sort of problem..such as with the G# or 3rd string brealage. and I do remember the lamp.. I copied his lamp idea...and used it for a long while in dark venues. Bill introduced me to Herby Walace, Jimmy Crawford, and others great pickers through his record and tape collection..and now I know Herby personally and have the pleasure of enjoying him on CD and at jams/shows.
Bill played a Sho Bud..but also BUILT his own PSG using some of his inovations in the manufacture. I played it a little last year when I was visiting with him at his house. Bill is not trying to sell anything!!!!! he is mearly exchanging and providing information to the forum and fellow steelers. Every thing that bill has done( made and experimented with) has been done in his downstairs basement work shop..By hand. Bill and his lovely wife live in a small apartment in Pittsfield, Mass..and enjoy family, friends, and visitors.
He is rich in freindliness and his love of the Pedal Steel Guitar.
GrouchyVet
Eric West
Member

From: Portland, Oregon, USA

posted 31 March 2003 12:48 PM     profile     
Thank you Bill, I am glad you realise my particular contribution. Perhaps it will provoke an effort towards simplicity. Things that are too "Rube Goldbergian" are often not recieved very well by the general playing public. I am reminded when I see my "Zinger" hanging on the wall. It's a combination of an autoharp and a jointed roller for the "drone" string with a fixed thumbpick. They never really took off. Why? I can only guess.

One suggestion of a line of thinking would be along the line of the leatherman Locking Blade System. It was so simple it defied understanding.

I guess as a positive critique, I know that the Visual aspect of Pedal Steel Guitar is perhaps second only to the sound. Anything that detracts from the "crowd" being able to"see" what you're doing detracts from the adulation of it.

Bill, John, et al. Here's a free million bucks or so. I'm not that materialistic:

Having strings that are simply "marked" would get "us" there. All you'd have to do is differentiate between the two major fretboard lengths, or have a system for marking them with a semi permanant fine tip marking pen. Just a simple cheeze grater looking plate with slots in it for a marking pen. It could be retouched once or more per night. What's wrong with that? Five bucks a plate and $1.99 per permanant marking pen.

(No lawsuits for laser "overspray" on the "crowd". No nervous off duty cops in the front row with red dots dancing on their chests..)

There. Problem solved. Invention Created.

Black Light pen and bulb for night work. Margin for error? A lot less than the "aiming" at a line off the side of the fretboard.

John: I'm working on it. Defending myself, my life, or what's left of my playing ability would only make them all worse. (Before I learned to type proficiently, I used to look at each new hundred page cyber-battle as a fresh challenge. I think 60wpm is enough.)

When your stack of money runs out from the "Eric String Marking System", let me know. I'll get you going again. I got a million of 'em..

Now, Where did I put that electric fence unit.....

The World is yall's....

EJL

David Mason
Member

From: Cambridge, MD, USA

posted 31 March 2003 02:03 PM     profile     
I would have to try one first before I could either mount one permanently or make fun of the idea.
chas smith
Member

From: Encino, CA, USA

posted 31 March 2003 03:21 PM     profile     
OK

[This message was edited by chas smith on 01 April 2003 at 10:08 AM.]

Bill Hankey
Member

From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

posted 31 March 2003 07:16 PM     profile     

Charles,

It is my hope that you would reconsider what appears to be inappropriate input, and rethink the terminology on the morrow. Thank you for your consideration.

Bill H.

Bill Crook
Member

From: Goodlettsville, TN , Spending my kid's inheritance

posted 01 April 2003 06:18 AM     profile     
Anything loaded with a laser light is an open invite to a law-suit !!!

I don't care how careful you attempt to be with it, someone will manage to get hit by it.....

If you insist on needing a light source for the PSG,A Mixer-board lamp on a gooseneck shaft is the way to go. Power it from a 6 volt wall-wart,and use a wire-wound "pot" to adjust the brightness of said lamp. Beings that most amps now-a-days has a a.c. recepticle for other devices,I find that useing wall-warts really isn't a major problem to-day.

If anyone is interested as to my set-up,I can e-mail photos of it to you.

The set-up consist of a mixerboard light,a box having the wire-wound "pot" to control the brightness of the lamp,with a L.E.D. to let the operator know that the unit is powered up, that is velcroed to the right-end of the the PSG. (This can be used on either end of the PSG,all depends upon your preference)

Again....... DO NOT USE A LASER LIGHT !!!!

David Doggett
Member

From: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA

posted 01 April 2003 07:13 AM     profile     
Chas, your music activated vibrator reminds me of an experiment some psychologists did years ago. They developed a kind of giant diaper that you strapped around your crotch. It vibrated according to music fed into it. They tried different instruments and found that tenor sax was the most stimulating. I think your vibrator, or two of them in some cases, could be built into that device and greatly improve it.

Seriously, Bill I would like to have a 45 degree angle fret marker made of clear plastic. You could attach it to the neck with velcro strips. I don't see a need for a laser pointer. We don't need one for the current frets under the strings, why should we need one for a marker in front of the strings. The main advantage of your idea is to get the markers out from under the bar hand so they can be seen. As for lighting, why not put a light at one (or both) ends of the clear plastic so that it is channeled down the length and caught by the fret markers.

Michael Holland
Member

From: Nashville, Tennessee, USA

posted 01 April 2003 10:47 AM     profile     
Why am I the only one who gets this? Don't answer that!.......

Seriously, where is your 'line of sight' when playing an instrument with a bar? It's the fretboard - 100%. I've read all the posts where guys say "I position my bar by ear". I don't buy it. You can't place your bar in the vicinity and then fudge up or down as needed unless you play only whole and half notes (flat or sharp until intoned). You must place the bar directly over and exactly parallel to the fret marker beneath.

Here's the problem. I can't see through my metal bar and big, fat fingers, so I have to look at the destination fret as the bar moves into position, then, if that position is held, at the adjacent frets as the bar is positioned (compensating for the parallax of course), then immediately on to the destination fret where my bar is going to end up on the next note, which will, in turn, be obscured on the arrival of the bar (thanks, Bill, you've been a great inspiration verbosilizationally . Seems a no brainer to me that it would be great if the fret marker could be visible at the same time the bar is positioned over it.

Bill Hankey
Member

From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

posted 01 April 2003 02:18 PM     profile     

Charles,

I appreciate the prompt and reciprocative response that proves what a great gentleman you are.

Bill H.

chas smith
Member

From: Encino, CA, USA

posted 01 April 2003 07:49 PM     profile     
Bill, you're welcome, and thank you for the nice comment.
Bill Hankey
Member

From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

posted 02 April 2003 09:39 AM     profile     

David D.,

From your point of view, where you shifted to a serious note, I am very pleased that your observations are quite accurate. I agree that the emphasis is not on the lack of much needed light, but rather on a fretboard that will quickly become adaptable for visual advantage. Just for the record, the current fretboard could be modified, and the wider raised fretboard would meld into the beauty of the instrument. Purposeful efforts might very well challenge any existing designs. The "brow" of the extended fretboard could feature delicate inlay, combined with selected wood. The versatility of the concept assures the success of its practical application.

Bill H.

[This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 03 April 2003 at 05:40 AM.]

Bill Hankey
Member

From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

posted 03 April 2003 01:57 AM     profile     

Michael H.,

Thank you for the affirmative reply. Reassuring those who have taken the time to consider the visual aspect of playing the steel guitar, is appreciated. If by some magic, an electronic device, similar to charted heartbeats, could reveal the actual bar positioning of a player, the validity of the concept would come rushing home. Truth is as silent as still water, or a wet leaf at the forest floor. Either of the two can bring excitement under a variety of different conditions. A new concept shares the same fate of the fallen leaf, if it tumbles into a recess of disregard.

Bill H.

Stephen Gambrell
Member

From: Ware Shoals, South Carolina, USA

posted 03 April 2003 08:13 AM     profile     
Bill,
DO WHAT?????
Eric West
Member

From: Portland, Oregon, USA

posted 03 April 2003 09:53 AM     profile     
"A fish could marry a bird, but where would they live?"
-Old Yiddish Proverb-
Jack Anderson
Member

From: Scarborough, ME

posted 03 April 2003 06:14 PM     profile     
As for the potential laser-linked liabilities, just place this warning on the front of your steel: "Caution: do not stare at laser with remaining eye."
Bill Hankey
Member

From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

posted 04 April 2003 05:11 AM     profile     

Stephen G.

The brevity of your reply necessitates my request for specific language that is pertinent to the thread.

Bill H.

David Reeves
Member

From: Florida

posted 04 April 2003 05:26 AM     profile     
Bill,
I kind of understand what you are building and as a beginning steel guitarist it makes sense to me. But the big words you use in some of your replies leave me feeling empty and confused.
Folks I deal with on a daily basis dont use words with more than 2 syllables.

------------------
Stump Reeves


Bill Hankey
Member

From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

posted 04 April 2003 09:19 AM     profile     

David R.,

Thank you for explaining that my choice of vocabulary is for the most part too flowery. It will be no problem substituting, and using two syllable words. As a beginner, please let me hear how you are doing with your steel guitar.

Bill H.

David Reeves
Member

From: Florida

posted 04 April 2003 01:02 PM     profile     
Bill,
It's all in fun.
I lurnt some of them big werdz too, when I wuz in Kawlige!

As far as my beginning steel playing goes. I have been a musician for over 30 years. I was injured in Dec 2002 and lost use of left hand and my wrist is fused at the joint. I will never be able to hold my guitar again. This is what has finally given me the gumption to buy a psg.
I thought I would I pick it up fairly quick. And as far finding the chords, I have had no problem. The sound, however, still has much to be desired. I never really appreciated the amount of time a steel player must devote to technique, and coordinating the pulls to get a good sound as I have since trying to learn this. I have great difficulty just holding the bar with my fingers since I have some partial paralysis in my left hand. And I have a lot of work to do training my right hand to find the proper strings.
This just may well be the most frustrating addiction I have ever imposed upon myself. I love the challenge and just can't seem to get enough of this miserable instrument.

------------------
Stump Reeves


[This message was edited by David Reeves on 04 April 2003 at 01:02 PM.]

Bill Hankey
Member

From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

posted 04 April 2003 02:07 PM     profile     

David R.,

Thank you for the reply. I have some good buddies down there in Florida. They plan to come to the Annual Massachusetts Steel Guitar Bash on July 20th. They made the trip last year. I was moved by your great determination to get a handle on the steel guitar. There are some brush techniques that should be tried. Your feet and knees can do wonders if the steel is equipped with most of the important changes.
That strategy could very well merge into a more progressive style. I hope that you will never lose interest in the instrument that so many of us have tried to master.

Bill H.

David Doggett
Member

From: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA

posted 04 April 2003 05:34 PM     profile     
"Frustrating addiction," you got it, David. And you can never completely let go of it. I came back after almost 25 years. Keep at it though. Believe it or not there is a hand-eye-foot-knee-ear thing that does gradually become a little automatic to some extent. But it is very gradual. Just like with fiddle, you can't hardly stand to listen to yourself for a great long time.
Stephen Gambrell
Member

From: Ware Shoals, South Carolina, USA

posted 04 April 2003 05:53 PM     profile     
I'm sorry, Bill, I just can't figure out what falling leaves has to do with playing steel guitar. If I have to go rake leaves, how can I practice?
Bill Hankey
Member

From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

posted 05 April 2003 03:22 AM     profile     
Stephen G.

I credit the tiny leaves in many ways. Not the least of all, their natural protection in keeping you or anyone, and their steel guitar, from the blistering rays of the sun at a yard party, block dance, outdoor roast, etc. You may want to remember that leaves were part of the trees, that supplied builders of the steel guitar with bird's-eye maple. I had mentioned before editing, a famous steel guitar builder. Waning responses have clearly indicated that such practices are to be reconsidered. A thriving, and interesting thread, apparently needs not the mention of famous personalities, but rather, striving to maintain restraint in by keeping a simplistic, yet meaningful reply.

Bill H.

[This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 05 April 2003 at 08:35 AM.]

[This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 06 April 2003 at 04:14 AM.]


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