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Author
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Topic: Emmons or Zum ?
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Paul O'Bryan
Member From: Adelaide. Australia
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posted 13 April 2003 03:20 AM
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I play an Emmons 1980 D 10 P/P at present,& i'm looking to buy a new steel & sell my push pull, for tuning purpose only .
So i am looking to buy a D 10 Lashley II.
But i have heard so many good reports about
Zum steel i dont know what to do.
I got a price off the Emmons web site for a Black mica D 10 Lashley II 7/8.
Does any one know the price on a Zum with the same properties?
So what i need to know is,Keep the push pull
or buy a Lashley II or A Zum? |
Gary Lee Gimble
Member From: Gaithersburg, Maryland
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posted 13 April 2003 04:37 AM
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There have been more threads on the Emmons requesting adjustment suggestions and tweaking issues than the Zum. There is not a huge pricing variance between the two but there is about a one year wait for a new Zum. Buddy Charleton is in receipt of a new Zum which caused my hair line to recede another 2 inches from jealously. I played his new guitar and ordered a Zum the following week.
Gary Lee |
Mike Kowalik
Member From: San Antonio,Tx.,USA
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posted 13 April 2003 05:50 AM
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A Zum D-10 is $3295...I ordered one in January and was told there would be a 10 month wait. |
Reggie Duncan
Member From: Mississippi
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posted 13 April 2003 06:17 AM
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I'd buy the Emmons, if I had to have a new one. I have a 1979 Emmons myself, and it isn't for sale. Have the 1980 worked on! You might be sorry if you let it "get away"!
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Damir Besic
Member From: La Vergne,TN
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posted 13 April 2003 07:04 AM
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I would say,keep what you got.I`v heard from pro`s that even if you get the new Emmons you may get a $hit,some are good but some are not.And I also know people who waited for months on the new Zum and sold it quickly (with losing their money)because they didn`t like it.Your p/p is the best guitar money can buy,don`t do something you`ll be sorry for latter.[This message was edited by Damir Besic on 13 April 2003 at 07:06 AM.] |
Erv Niehaus
Member From: Litchfield, MN, USA
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posted 13 April 2003 07:17 AM
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Buddy Emmons is doing most of his playing these days on a new Emmons. That has to tell you something. Emmons---the guitar most others compare themselves to!
Erv |
Roger Rettig
Member From: NAPLES, FL
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posted 13 April 2003 07:28 AM
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I decided on one of each!  |
Herb Steiner
Member From: Cedar Valley, Travis County TX
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posted 13 April 2003 07:34 AM
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If you're set on your tuning, the PP would be a safe choice and the least expensive option, but if you want to experiment with copedent changes, you need a modern-type guitar.Having said that, I've been noticing fewer Emmons LeGrandes on steel shows lately, and more Zumsteels. But I would have no problems owning either brand, except for the fact that I'm quite happy with my Fessenden guitars. ------------------
Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association
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Graham Bland
Member From: Nashville, Tennessee, USA
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posted 13 April 2003 07:54 AM
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PaulIf you are set on buying a new guitar "Emmons" is it. Little Ron is building better guitars than his father ever did. I played what he had in St.Louis last year and in Chattanooga just a couple of weeks ago and they were all excellent guitars
in workmanship and the most important "tone"
"tone""tone""tone""tone""tone", and thats what we are all after. Those other guitar manufactures won't admit it but, they are all still trying to copy the Emmons guitar TONE but they can't because there is only one. ------------------
Emmons Legrande
Evans Fet 500 LV (early 90's)
Hilton Volume Pedal
[This message was edited by Graham Bland on 13 April 2003 at 07:59 AM.] |
Gino Iorfida
Member From: Oakdale, Pennsylvania, USA
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posted 13 April 2003 08:43 AM
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When you say 'tuning purposes' do you mean you are having trouble keeping the P/P in tune? or you want to be able to experiment with different tunings? If it's the first, I don't think you'll find a guitar that stays in tune as well as a good p/p. It may just need a good cleanign and adjustment. If it's the latter, keep the push pull, and pick up a decent used all pull, experiment away, and when you settle in on one you like, get the push pull set up that way.
I have nothing against a Lashley, or a Zum, they are both great steels in their right, I just would hate to see someone put all that money out, and still not be happy. |
Earnest Bovine
Member From: Los Angeles CA USA
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posted 13 April 2003 08:58 AM
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When will Emmons make a 12 string? |
Damir Besic
Member From: La Vergne,TN
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posted 13 April 2003 09:00 AM
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The best thing is to visit SGN and Bobbe and try every single one of those 20-30 guitars he has on the floor.I`m sure you`ll find one you like.BUT AGAIN,keep the p/p dude 
o, sorry,I didn`t see you`re from Australia.If I was you,I would try that Australian pedal steel,whats the name,Ampeg or something.
I think may be Anapeg but not sure.[This message was edited by Damir Besic on 13 April 2003 at 09:02 AM.] [This message was edited by Damir Besic on 13 April 2003 at 09:03 AM.] |
Roger Crawford
Member From: Locust Grove, GA USA
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posted 13 April 2003 09:10 AM
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ZumSteel! Sound great, play easy, never been a bad one ship out of Bruce's shop. The man is impecable. Sorry, Graham...you really need to hear my axe!
RC |
kyle reid
Member From: Butte,Mt.usa
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posted 13 April 2003 09:36 AM
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All you have to do is ask Hughey, he has the right answer! |
C Dixon
Member From: Duluth, GA USA
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posted 13 April 2003 09:58 AM
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I would buy the Emmons' LeGrande III, IF I was buying a new D-10. I am not, nor am I buying any guitar. In fact I would never buy another D-10 ever again. It is just totally inadaquate for my needs since acquiring a U-12. If Emmons were to build a single U12 LeGrande III on a double 12 body; with a changer that had a 5 raise AND 5 lower capability; AND Ron would guarantee me IN writing that the tops of the strings were dead level flat at the nut rollers, I would order one yesterday. They don't. They won't; and I don't believe they ever will, so it is a moot scenario. I believe the Zum IS one of the most gorgeious guitars I have seen. Bruce Zumsteg is a wonderful man. I admire and love him like a brother. I can not say enough good things about him. As I have found on ALL PSG's I have found pros AND cons on the Zum. However, I must agree that the Emmons' is the guitar that I perceive most buiders copied to come up with their's. So to me, it makes sense then, to go back to the source. But that is me. You are another thing. Do what YOU feel will make YOU happy, And may Jesus richly bless you in your quests, carl |
Frank Parish
Member From: Nashville,Tn. USA
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posted 13 April 2003 05:32 PM
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Coming from a p/p Emmons is like no other comparison I can think of. At best you know immediately the loss of highs and tone in general. Not to say the Emmons Legrandes don't have good tone but if you've played the p/p enough to know what it is supposed to sound like when you sit down, the Legrande will seem flat at best. This is coming from a former Legrande II owner. I think they are good guitars and have good tone but the P/P guitars set up right will out perform the all pull Legrandes of any vintage. Get that p/p set-up by someone who knows how if it doesn't suit you but don't sell it. You'll be sorry. |
VERNON PRIDDY
Member From: ELIZABETHTOWN; KY. USA
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posted 13 April 2003 06:17 PM
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I Have Owned Bouth I Now Have A Zum. Great Playing Guitar Don;t Ever Have To Ajust It. Stays In Tune Great Think I'll Keep It Too. SONNY. PS. Also Have A SHO-BUD.------------------
SONNYPRIDDY |
Robert Parent
Member From: Savage, MN
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posted 14 April 2003 04:29 AM
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I bought my first Zum about 7 years ago. A few weeks later sold the Emmons P/P and have never looked back. There are several nice guitars on the market so buy what you like, for me it's a Zum. |
Tommy Detamore
Member From: Floresville, Texas
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posted 14 April 2003 06:35 AM
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I can't say too much about the new Emmons guitars as I have not played one, but the new Zumsteels are fantastic. I got a new one in July and it sounds great, plays like a dream, and stays in tune incredibly well. And I agree that Bruce Z. is a wonderful man that treats everyone, novice or seasoned pro, with the same respect and fairness. He has always been very reluctant to turn over much of the work on his guitars to others for fear of losing control of the quality. He does have some very good assistance these days but the guitars are still built essentially by the man himself. This is one reason for the wait, which in my opinion you will find it to be well worth it. And the Zum is trouble free and easy to work on yourself, and living in Australia this may be a concern for you. The guitar will arrive ready to play, and will stay that way. And Bruce is always accessible by phone to answer questions and guide you through any changes you would want to make. And BTW, he ships parts very quickly too.... |
JERRY THURMOND
Member From: sullivan mo u.s.a.
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posted 14 April 2003 02:12 PM
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I have had three Zum's in the last 15 years, I never had any problems with any of them, they all played wonderful, an they sure are easy to sell when you go to get a new one. Jerry |
Larry Harlan
Member From: Thomas, OK, USA
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posted 14 April 2003 05:12 PM
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Not meaning to open a can of worms here, but since the thread IS on "Emmons or Zum," I have a question, albeit possibly a elementary one at best in the eyes of many. But, realizing there are an enormous amount of variables involved, (hands, individual style, amp, etc.), even so---can a person get the 1968 to 1980's Emmons P/P("Nashville" Blade) sound in a Zum? If anyone has significantly accomplished this, how did you do it and what commercially avaliable pickups did you use, E-66's, 910's, 710's, "True Tone," Bruce's factory single coil pickups, or other? I think I've heard some that are very close (at least to my ear), BUT, it seemed something was minutely lacking to be the sound I chase after. I've shown my hearing and incomptence enough here, but just thought I'd see if anyone had done this and felt they had fully accomplished doing so. Best regards.[This message was edited by Larry Harlan on 14 April 2003 at 06:29 PM.] |
C Dixon
Member From: Duluth, GA USA
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posted 14 April 2003 06:32 PM
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I do not know if one can get the P/P sound out of a Zum.But my question is, why would you want to? An Emmons' P/P is unique. If you are seeking THAT sound, the P/P is the way to go I would think? I personally do not care for them; because to me the sound advantage is far outweighed by the mechanical dissadvantages. But that is me of course. For P/P's lovers, there is NO other guitar. And I am happy for them. For me it is all pull all the way carl |
Gary Preston
Member From: Columbus, Ohio, USA
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posted 14 April 2003 06:36 PM
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paul,,have you looked at a williams ? they are a nice steel and the finish on them is excellent. and the sound is great and they stay in tune as good as the rest. call bill rudolph and talk to him he is easy to talk to (jusy a suggestion).. gary. |
Johnny Cox
Member From: The great state of Texas
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posted 14 April 2003 07:08 PM
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First of all, nobody can get the 68 blade sound except Buddy Emmons when he plays the blade. Contrary to popular beleif, all P/Ps don't sound great. I had one P/P and did not like it. Alan Love has it now and does. Between Emmons LG and Zum, hands down ZUM. ------------------
The Steel Dr.
Johnny Cox P.S.D.
MSA Customer Service
www.msapedalsteels.com
www.thetimejumpers.com
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Roger Crawford
Member From: Locust Grove, GA USA
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posted 14 April 2003 07:18 PM
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Larry...I'm not after the P/P sound with my Zum either. As Carl says, that tone just isn't everyone's cup of tea. The L910's that I ordered on the Zum were a little too dark in the mids for my taste. I put TrueTone's in it and it gives me exactly what I'm looking for. I'm sure it wouldn't be a diehard P/P's favorite tone, but it cranks my tractor! [This message was edited by Roger Crawford on 14 April 2003 at 07:19 PM.] |
Larry Harlan
Member From: Thomas, OK, USA
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posted 14 April 2003 08:35 PM
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Carl, I simply want the P/P sound in a modern, all pull guitar. I see the P/P mechanism, which was Okay in it's day, now as old technology. Hence I want the sound with updated mechanical ability.
John, you're right without a doubt. No one will sound as good as Mr. E on his Blade. But, IMO, all P/P's have the distinct "that sound" that I've chased since the early 1970's.
Roger, each of us have our own idea of the sound they chase after, or what is acceptable to us. I simply want the "Nashville (commercial) P/P Sound," even though it may be a bit different from P/P guitar to P/P guitar, but ALL have "that sound" within that catagory, at least to my ear. I figure with the technology we now have that a person ought to be able to get the sound-tone he wants, and for me, it's simply the "P/P sound in an all pull guitar." Best regards and appreciate your replies. |
Patrick Ickes
Member From: Upper Lake, CA USA
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posted 14 April 2003 08:47 PM
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Hi Paul,
I went to The Dallas Convention 3 years ago to find a new steel guitar. I wasn't sure what I wanted, and I figured that there would be plenty of vendors there for me to choose from. I looked at and talked to everyone who would listen. During the show, I would stand outside the ballroom door and listen to the players. Everytime I heard a wonderful sounding guitar, I would go in the room and walk up to the stage and look to see what was making that sound. Everytime, except once, the guitar was either a Zumsteel or a P/P Emmons. I was sold on the Zumsteel because of their simple all pull construction and fine quality. Being an Aircraft mechanic by trade, I did not want to be constantly working on the push-pull. I just wanted to play and get that sound I heard in Dallas.....hassle free.
If it's tone, you already have it, it just needs some work. If it's no hassle and tone, get the Zumsteel.
good luck,Patrick P.S. the other guitar was Herbie's Mullens.
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KENNY KRUPNICK
Member From: Grove City,Ohio
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posted 14 April 2003 08:56 PM
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Zumsteel!!! |
Bobby Boggs
Member From: Pendleton SC
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posted 14 April 2003 10:03 PM
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The Zum is a great guitar no doubt.But if an Emmons type tone is what you're after.Keep the PP and send it to Cass or Brian Adams, Seymour etc.They can fix the tuning problem unless it's a bolt on. As for the Zum verse Legrande tone.Anyone see the Bellcove jam video with 2 world class players? One play's a Zum the other an Emmons Legrande....I rest my case.---------bb |
Doug Seymour
Member From: Jamestown NY USA
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posted 15 April 2003 01:08 AM
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Bobby, you are absolutely correct! Great video, great steels, great guys playing them! |
Paul O'Bryan
Member From: Adelaide. Australia
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posted 15 April 2003 02:56 AM
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Thanks for all the different replies on my subject, it makes it a lot easier when steel players give their opinion on their experience with an instrument. |
Dennis Olearchik
Member From: Newtown, PA
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posted 15 April 2003 05:26 AM
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Just my $.02. I think there's a significant difference in how each guitar "sounds" not only because of who's playing it but what equipment they're playing through (e.g. amp, speakers, effects, etc.) and other factors like whether you're hearing the player/guitar at a concert hall, jam room, on a CD/record, etc.As an example, I listened to 5 world-class players at Scotty's (as I was lucky enough to be sitting about 10 ft from 4 of them in the jam room ). Neither the Emmons nor the Zum guitars were the "best sounding" guitars to "my ears". And I luv both brands and have tons of respect for their builders and for the players who were behind the guitars. All the players were truly awesome (and legends) but the "sound" coming from another brand guitar and different amp set-up was far and away the "best sounding" (to my ears). So it may be a matter of playing the guitar(s) you're interested in through your amp/effects set-up (or as close as possible) and basing your decision on that experience. Maybe even taping yourself while you're testing out the guitar (and the result could be: cheese louise, that's not the sound that I've been hearing in my head!). Imho, reading brochures, looking at web-sites, listening to CDs/records and thinking that other people's descriptions of how a guitar "sounds" is exactly what you're after, can be a very expensive disappointment . But then again, maybe not |
Joan Cox
Member From: Eustace, TX USA
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posted 15 April 2003 05:31 AM
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I had a 1972 P/P and played it for about 5 years before I got my first Zum in 1982. The only thing I remember about the P/P was the pedals were hard to push. When I got the Zum, it took a while for me to realize that I didn't have to push so hard on the pedals. I still have that Zum. It will be 21 years old this year, and I wouldn't take nothing for it. It sounds great.I play it every week. So does the newer one I have that is a 1997 model. I'm very happy with my two Zums, and always say that I have the two best ones Bruce ever built.
Joan |
Bill Terry
Member From: Bastrop, TX, USA
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posted 15 April 2003 08:06 AM
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Paul, you said "for tuning purpose only", meaning 'keeping in tune issues' or 'flexible copedent issues'? I'd agree with Herb about the copedent thing. IF you don't move things around much, and staying in tune is your issue, a P/P should be no more trouble to maintain and tune than an all-pull guitar, maybe less. I've got a LeGrande and a P/P, and for my money the P/P is way more stable from gig to gig. You gotta have a good setup on a P/P, I think that's the key. Mine is not stiff at all, quite the opposite in fact. My .02 on Zums... The ones I've seen and played seem to have been designed and constructed with an attention to detail that I found very impressive. Precision is the word I'd use, and of course they sound great.
[This message was edited by Bill Terry on 15 April 2003 at 08:07 AM.]
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Billy Woo
Member From: Los Angeles, CA, USA
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posted 15 April 2003 09:51 AM
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This message is for Earnest Bovine or any others that may be interested, there actually is a 12 string Emmons for sale right now on Ebay with 4 knees, 3 on the floor and it hasnt even hit 900 clams yet, 23 minutes to go before it's gone..Bronco Billy
Zumsteel-U12 |
Terry Wendt
Member From: Nashville, TN, USA
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posted 15 April 2003 09:19 PM
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good move ------------------
PedalSteel.us Magazine TheEarlyDays.com and appearing regularly...aLotOfSpace.com
Jimmy Crawford/Russ Hicks... and Buddy Emmons on Bass!
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Larry Bell
Member From: Englewood, Florida
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posted 16 April 2003 11:11 AM
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Billy,
I believe Earnest was referring to all-pull Emmons 12-strings and I believe the answer to Earnest's (probably rhetorical) question is, 'when hell freezes over'.  I have a '69 p/p 12-string universal guitar that I will go to my grave with. One of the best sounding 12-strings I've ever heard. ------------------
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps
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Craig A Davidson
Member From: Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin USA
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posted 16 April 2003 11:27 AM
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Let's not forget if it's that sound one is looking for coming out of Nashville most of it is coming out on a Franklin. I myself would say push-pull but then I guess I am biased.------------------
1985 Emmons push-pull,Evans SS200, Nashville400, 65 re-issue Fender Twin, Fender Tele |
Dan Hatfield
Member From: Columbia, Mo USA
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posted 16 April 2003 03:53 PM
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I have a '77 Zum D-10 which I bought when it was about five years old, and to my knowledge has never had any work done on it other than a minor "tune-up and oil change" which Bruce did (in about an hour while I waited) a few weeks ago. In my opinion it still plays like a new one. Hal Rugg was just here for the jazz show and seems to be quite excited about a new Zum which Bruce is building for him as we speak. I can't comment on the Emmons since I have never played one, but I don't believe you can go wrong with the Zum. Dan |
Larry Bell
Member From: Englewood, Florida
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posted 17 April 2003 07:02 AM
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quote:
if it's that sound one is looking for coming out of Nashville
Guess I'm not shackled by that particular constraint.  ------------------
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps
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