It also is the reason I went to a D-10 from a U-12.... because I like being able to grab that "7th" tone in various chord clusters.

It makes that "Nashville" sound of the traditional E9 complete.... in my very lowly and very humble position in the food chain of steel pickers.

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Bill Fulbright
Mullen D-10 8x7; Gibson ES-165; Peavey Vegas 400;
ICQ# 2251620 My Music Site

There's often more there on the universal setup than meets the eye.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 25 June 2003 at 06:34 PM.]

It also is very pleasurable for me to use the half-tone lower for the root of minor blues licks in that position. You have adjacent strings that way, and even a 7th note on the 10th string below.

There are also several ways of getting the same tonal relationships you get lowering 9 and playing 10,9,8 (B,C#,E). On higher strings, the most obvious is 8,7,6B (E,F#,A). On my guitar I lower 10 and 9 on the universal a whole tone from G#,B to F#,A. 11,10,9 with that lever gives the same relationship (E,F#,A open) an octave lower than 8,7,6B. There's more'n one way to skin a cat.

While those notes aren't available in the same way on the universal there are other ways to do basically the same things.

quote:

---

the most obvious is 8,7,6B (E,F#,A).

---

The commentary on similar U-12 applications is always helpful. Although it will be awhile, if and when I go to a U-12 or D-10, I don't yet have a clear idea what would be best for me. Hopefully more time on S-10 E9 will tell me, along with storing up commentary here.

[This message was edited by Jeff A. Smith on 25 June 2003 at 11:35 PM.]

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Livin' in the Past and the Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning.

Dunno what I'd do without it.

Comping rythym "bakersfield" style.

6_______0_______________0______

7___________________0_________0___

8_______0_______________0_______

9___________________0_________0__

10__0(T)_______0(T)_______________0(T) Repeated or varied....

OR "Alvin Lee" Seventh sounding stuff to drive a tele player nuts. Higher frets are better. Using the 6th as the top is a little more "melodic".

6__________________________________________

7_____________(0)________(0)______________

8________________________________________

9______________0__________0_______________

10___0_-_A_________A____________A_-0-_A____ Repeat ad inf..

Sorry for the Cromagnon Tab.

So shoot me...

Check this out-----Key of C major

With A & B pedals down at the 2nd fret pick string 10..

Now pick the 10th string at the 3rd fret...

Now pick the 9th string at the 3rd fret...

Pick the 8th string at the 3rd fret with it lowered a half tone and release the lever for the next note...

Now pick the 8th string at the 4th fret....

Now pick the 7th string at the 3rd fret...

(remember A&B pedals should still be down throughout this whole move)...

Now pick the 6th string at the 3rd fret and then release B pedal only for the next note....

Now pick the 7th string at the 3rd fret...

Now pick the 8th string at the 3rd fret to complete this riff.......

This lick sounds best when played as eighth notes at Orange Blossom special tempos.

The 9th string is the hidden key to a multitude of chromatic riffs in that register.

I'll have to analyze Paul's lick.
------------------
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 26 June 2003 at 06:28 PM.]

I keep hearing about this "Universal"....

( just kidding..

My buddy here in PDX has that "Low E"/ Lower the B to D thing omitting the D on a E66D10, and I just can't seem to make it do those cleanly. If it were I, I'd put a G# on the bottom, on the B pedal, stick a D in the middle of the C6 neck, and call it the "The Harvester"....

Gotta run.

I've printed out a whole load of stuff off that NP string, and have got a bunch of PF stuff to go through.

Thanks again to the both of youse.

Hell. ALL of youse.

Eric West.

[This message was edited by Eric West on 26 June 2003 at 06:24 PM.]

It's gotta have "structure", and then I have to put it on the bandstand, or it seems like it stays "acedemic"..

The PF Cds got me out of a "slump from heck". No shame in admitting it for me.

Like my BC instruction, it will pay for itself a hundred times over..

Glad they took the time.

6                    3B--3
7                  3        3
8	   3b--3 4             3
9	 3
10 2A 3A
   Eb E  F  F# G G# A C  B  A  G
and this is how I play it using G# to F# on 6
and F# to F on 7 (P5 on B6)
  
6           0bb    3bb 4--3
7        0b      3b          3
8  0b 0        3                3
hold the pedal/lever  |
to flat 7 1/2 step and|RELEASE
6 a whole step        |LEVERS

I can play it in C, but couldn't in Bb or B as one could on standard E9. Having 3 consecutive chromatic notes is really useful.

FWIW

As always, thanks for the lesson, Paul. You always keep me thinking.

------------------
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 26 June 2003 at 08:29 PM.]

The other cool thing is that you can walk that three string forward roll up three frets at a time and play a full chromatic scale. And it can be played pretty fast -- but pretty fast for me may not be for you.

Thanks again for being here.

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[url] www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/ [/url]

I should never have read that "Universal vs D10" thread. I was doing just fine...

Got a good three chord gig this weekend to erase it all from my mind.

The only job I've given myself is to play an Eb run, a Bb run, and an Ab run against every C chord that's over 4 bars. Maybe a couple augmented and diminished runs.

They'll never notice..

We'll see how it goes..

This one's a keeper.

------------------
Bill Fulbright
Mullen D-10 8x7; Gibson ES-165; Peavey Vegas 400;
ICQ# 2251620 My Music Site

                  (Dm7)      (C9)                   (G6)
    G7  Fmaj7  F7  F6  Fm6  Em7b5  G13  G7b13  Fdim  Em7  E7 Cadd9  Eaug 
 1-----------------------------------------------------------------------
 2-----------------------------------------------------------------------
 3-----------------------------------------------------------------------
 4-----------------------------------------------------------------------
 5--3-----3A---3a--3----3-----2a----3A----3a-----3----3---3---3-----3A---
 6--3-----3B---3B--3B---3B----2-----3-----3------3----3---3---3B----3B---
 7--------3----3---3-----------------------------------------------------
 8--3-------------------3R----2R----3-----3------3R---3---3R--3-----3R---
 9--3-----3----3---3----3-----2-----3-----3------3----3L--3L--3L----3L---
10-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Having an extE9 it makes even more sense since there is a:
dom9th on strings 12 11 10 9 7
And a major 9 on strings 8 6 5 2 1
And a major interval on top on strings 4 3

Bengt Erlandsen

[This message was edited by Bengt Erlandsen on 27 June 2003 at 10:59 AM.]

You can also do the three fret forward roll chromatic run with the 9th string. The 9th string allows both options. The point I am making is that its best to have as many chromatic options as possible for the ease of playing.

Anytime you give up a string you will lose alot. I believe Buddy Emmons added the D string to the tuning. Anyway whoever did was brilliant because it enables players to utilize the root position for the stronger leading tones when improvising single note phrases. Universal players have had to surrender some of those possibilities to gain the convenience of learning only one tuning.

This is a good thread.

(In 'G')
10th fret - 9,6,5 and 4 with pedals B and C
10th fret - 9,6,5,4 (pedals 'off', and lower the 9th)
Then slide down to the 8th fret and play the same grip -
5th fret - 9,6,5,4 again with just B and C pedals...

After that, it's back to the 10th with the A pedal and the 'F' lever to get the B7, but you get the idea, I'm sure.

I love this 9th string AND the facility to lower it - the above is just one example of many chord applications...

RR
PS: Sorry about the makeshift 'tab'!!!

[This message was edited by Roger Rettig on 27 June 2003 at 08:09 AM.]

How are you able to post tablature? That's pretty cool.

Paul

Strings 9,6&4, with B&C pedals down, two frets up from wherever you find the normal chord... lift pedals and drop two, you get the I7 chord, OR, if you use the 9 lower lever, and roll off the C pedal, you get a nice sounding five chord, or drop two frets to the four.

Simple simple. That's all I can muster, but I sort of like it.

Also: it's great to see the erstwhile Mr. Franklin among the posts again!