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Author
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Topic: 1st or 2nd string raise?
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Gino Iorfida
Member From: Oakdale, Pennsylvania, USA
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posted 30 July 2003 01:21 PM
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I've noticed that the changes in the standard 'emmons' type setup seem to be the most common (granted folks ahve them in differnt places), but in general, you have your standard ABC pedals, a KL to 1) lower the E's 1/2 step, 2) Raise the E's 1/2step, 3) Lower the D# to C# (w/ half stop) and lower D to C#, and even 4) B's lowered 1/2 step, what seems to be the wildcard is the RKL on the emmons setup, where some guys raise the 1st 1/2 step, others 1 step, while others raise the 2nd 1/2 step, and of course, some raise both 1'st and 2nd. (also on this lever, there is a discrepancy of lowering the 6th 1 step, or raising the 7th 1 step)
My question is, which changes do most of ya'll use more often-- 1st raise 1 step, or 2nd raise 1/2 step (or both). I am wondering whihc change would be the most 'useful' in everyday playing, and which would be like the 'franklin pedal', i.e. something that is good for a few odd licks, as opposed to something for most meat and potatoes, everyday playing.
I personally find the 1st raise 1 step a bit more useful (to the point of thinking 'why deal with the extra tension on the knee lever to add the 2nd raise that I don't use as much), but by far would I consider myself as advanced of a player as most on here.
I'm just looking for some other insights here (even song/lick references), since this is one lever that I alwyas seem to be trying differnt things with etc. |
C Dixon
Member From: Duluth, GA USA
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posted 30 July 2003 04:30 PM
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Dino,Good questions. Here is what happened. The evolution of "standard" knee levers is as follows: 1. The first knee lever lowered 2 and 8 a half a tone. 2. Soon after this, someone (probably BE) split this into 2 levers---removing the 8th string lower and adding a knee lever that lowered both E's a half a tone. 3. Then Lloyd Green gave us the F knee lever where he raised both E's a half a tone. That meant for "standard" setups, we had the following: 1. lower the E's a half a tone. 2. Raise the E's a half a tone. 3. lower the D# a half a tone. Some where along in there BE lowered it a whole tone. Then the half stop came in. The next knee lever that came along if one can call it standard was raising 1 and 7 a half a tone. These 4 knee levers then were what most had. The latter knee lever probably was the least used. Then BE came out with a change that we all "had to have". IE, he removed the string 7 raise and replaced it with lowering string 6 a whole tone. So the following was standard for a long time: 1. Lower the E's half tone 2. Raise the E's half tone 3. Lower 2 a whole tone with half stop. (Some lowered 9 a half tone with this and today THAT is becoming standard). 4. Raise 1 a half tone and lower 6 a whole tone. Then some began to lower 5 (and possibly 10) a half tone. Today it is becoming almost a standard and in most cases it is done on LKV Then Paul Franklin came out with an incredible changes. IE, raising 1 a whole tone. One can hear it on many, many hit records. Later Paul raised 7 with it a whole tone. And followed with raising the 2nd string a half tone. (I believe I have the sequence correct. If not I stand corrected on the order in which Paul did it). These changes are heard often on all kind of hit songs. But many of us do not want to give up lowering of the 6th string a whole tone. (I would NOT play a PSG without that change). It is one of my favorites, since I also use it to split with the B pedal. And I use it all the time. My point is that those players who do not want to give up lowering of the 6th sring, have opted to sacrifce raising 1 a half tone and replace it with the whole tone rais. And even some of us add the raising of the 2nd string a half tone with it. So here is the way it appears to be evolving. 1. Lower the E's 2. Raise the E's 3. Lower 2 whole tone with half stop and lower 9 half tone. 4. Raise 1 a whole tone, raise 2 a half tone and lower 6 a whole tone. 5. Lower 5 and 10 a half tone. So my suggestion is to look at all the above and decide what fits your style. Because in the end it is YOU that must be happy. May Jesus bless you in your quests, carl |
Bobby Lee
Sysop From: Cloverdale, North California, USA
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posted 30 July 2003 08:48 PM
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Carl summed it up pretty well.
Most steel players have been at it for a few years at least, and we all get stuck on a favorite oddball knee lever or two. The evolution takes a long time because people (like me) are unwilling to give up things they've been using, even when more versatile changes enter the mainstream.
If I were starting out today, I would use the five levers that Carl described. They have the most possibilities. There's only one little wrinkle...
There's little doubt in my mind that raising the first two strings to E and G# will become the standard eventually. It's too useful to be ignored. But whether the lever should include the 6th string lower to F# (like Emmons) or the 7th string raise to G#(like Franklin) is still an open question. Neither change has a clear functional advantage over the other, in my mind anyway.------------------
 Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax[This message was edited by Bobby Lee on 30 July 2003 at 08:48 PM.] |
Jim Smith
Member From: Plano, TX, USA
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posted 30 July 2003 08:58 PM
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Why not move the 7th string whole tone raise to the same lever that lowers 2&9, similar to Bobbe Seymour's "Z" lever?  Then you could have the 6th string lower on the same lever that raises 1&2 and not lose anything.  Is anyone currently doing this? I'm thinking about trying it, then I could either eliminate one knee lever or think of something else to do with it.  ------------------
Jim Smith jimsmith94@comcast.net
-=Dekley D-12 10&12=-
-=Fessenden D-12 9&9=-
-=Emmons D-12 push pull 9&4 (soon to be 9&9)=-
Stereo Steel rig w/Boss GX-700
IVL SteelRider w/JV-880 |
Bengt Erlandsen
Member From: Brekstad, NORWAY
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posted 31 July 2003 02:37 AM
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For the 4th lever(RK)I prefer both 1&7 F#-G or both 1&7 F#-G#.
Jim, having 7th raise F#-G# together w 9th D-C# will mess up 3 of the positions where to play a minor pentatonic across strings 10 thru 5. Solution to one problem might create two or more new problems Bengt Erlandsen
ZumSteel S12extE9 7+7[This message was edited by Bengt Erlandsen on 31 July 2003 at 02:39 AM.] |
Joe Henry
Member From: Ebersberg, Germany
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posted 31 July 2003 10:49 AM
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What Carl sums up seems to be the preference of a vast majority of players today. However, as he said, YOU must be happy with the setup you choose and not just put on a change just because ______ (insert name here) has it. You are the one that makes music on the thing. Right now what I have on the "odd" lever (LKR in my case since I lower the E“s on the right) is this:
Raise 1st string a half tone. I have very little use for the whole step since I“m just not into "Franklin licks" and stuff like that. However, I have lots of use for the half tone raise in my playing.
And: Raise string 7 a whole tone. I find it very useful, it can do most everything the 6th string whole tone lower can do, and more: if I "half-pedal" it, it gives me the dominant 7th chord, same as a half-step raise. The 6th string whole tone lower would also be alright with me, but I use a wound 6th string and the old ShoBuds can“t take it. No problem with the 7th string raise, though. This combination might seem odd to some, but it works for me.Regards, Joe H. |
Bobby Lee
Sysop From: Cloverdale, North California, USA
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posted 31 July 2003 11:16 AM
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For a while, the most common 5th lever raised 1 and 7 half a step. Now, if you can set the 2nd string raise to be a half-stop, you can have your F# to G and the full step changes.
I don't think of it as a "Franklin licks" thing. The lever resolves a V chord on strings 1 and 2 up to a I chord. It's like stomping on A+B, but on higher strings that have a brighter timber. That's why I say that it's usefulness should not be ignored.
The modern lever that raises both F#'s to G# is an extension of the old F# to G lever. The D# to E can provide a soft half-stop feel.------------------
Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax |
Chick Donner
Member From: North Ridgeville, OH USA
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posted 02 August 2003 03:56 PM
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I do what Jim Smith mentions . . . RKR lowers 2 (with half stop), lowers 9 a half, raises 7 a half. RKL raises 1 a whole, 2 a half, lowers 6 (and in my case 11) a half. I'm THINKING of using same lever to lower E's on back neck. |
Bengt Erlandsen
Member From: Brekstad, NORWAY
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posted 02 August 2003 06:47 PM
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Just wonderin??? for those of you that have string 1 F#-G# & str2 Eb-E on the same lever.
How many of you have the pulls syncronized (start-end at the same time) and how many use the 2nd string to get a half-stop on string 1 F#-G-G#???? Is one setup better than the other???Bengt Erlandsen |
Jeff A. Smith
Member From: Angola,Ind. U.S.A.
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posted 02 August 2003 07:00 PM
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I set up a friend's Dekley so that the second string half-tone raise acts as a half-stop, kicking in just as the first string has risen to G. I don't remember how close the two pulls' endings are synchronized.The half-stop was so definite on the Dekley that I was tempted to go with this idea on my MSA. I had just the first string whole-tone raise on it for awhile, but to be honest, I didn't like the tone of the string as it raised; maybe something about this guitar. I just have the first string raising a half-step, and I'm so far using that lever more than I was with it the other way. | |
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