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  Sound of P/P - Vibrating thru body (Page 2)

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Author Topic:   Sound of P/P - Vibrating thru body
Pete Burak
Member

From: Portland, OR USA

posted 16 August 2003 08:47 PM     profile     
Why is Blocking (pick, palm, etc) so important?... it kills the string vibration i.e. sustain, which are so important, no?

Damir Besic
Member

From: La Vergne,TN

posted 16 August 2003 08:53 PM     profile     
"he`ll be coming around the mountain when he comes"...pling pling plong (banjo solo in case you didn`t know)
dang,Pete ,you got in here second before me,this was supposed to be for Bill...pling pling...

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[This message was edited by Damir Besic on 16 August 2003 at 08:55 PM.]

rhcarden
Member

From: Lampe,Mo / USA

posted 23 August 2003 10:05 AM     profile     
One of you with an all pull guitar that has a tuneable split, do this test. Does your tone get better (or change) when the pull finger is in contact with the split tuning screw? My guess is, there is no difference! I do not let the pull fingers hit the body on the A and B pedals and I don't hear any change in tone from the ones that do.

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Bob Carden 66 Emmons P/P 8/9
BMI 13 string 7/7

Damir Besic
Member

From: La Vergne,TN

posted 23 August 2003 11:10 AM     profile     
you can`t hear any change Bob my man,you have the King of Kings, `66 Emmons.You would hear a change if you would sit behind another steel,but don`t do that,its not worth it...

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ed packard
Member

From: Show Low AZ

posted 23 August 2003 11:28 AM     profile     
Lots of definitions needed for the verbage in this thread, and none if any to be found!

"Good Tone" is a matter of taste; But any tone can be defined in terms of its harmonic content at any given moment, and the change in its harmonic content with time. The piece of test equipment to do this is the Spectrum Analyzer. Do a search on a search engine and you can find a number of Spectrum Analyzer programs for free, and for pay. The one that I prefer is called "TRUE RTA". Now that we can measure and quantify what comes out of the pickup as a function of the other variables such as where you pick the string, the direction of picking motion, string material/tension/age, where the bar terminates the string (Hughey Land?)we can proceed to the mechanisms of changer, roller/nut, string length beyond the nut, fingers, axles, bridge material and radius, interstring coupling via the bridge/changer mechanism(s), the body (material/dimensions), coupling of the string Vibes to the body, vibration in the body and coupling back to the string, etc., etc..

There is no one controlling element re tone, ..each of the above mentioned, plus the pickup and its loading/position/field shape may/will have an effect upon the resulting sound. Different materials and configurations in any of the above will have different effects.

Exciting the strings will cause vibrations to travel back and forth along the excited string. These vibrations are also passed thru the roller/nut/bridge into the attached mechanisms, = axles, tuning structures, fingers, strings on the same axle, and finaly to the body and beyond. "Sympathetic vibrations" play a part. The "acoustic impedance" of the various parts determine how much of the vibrational excitement is passed from any string to the other strings, and to the rest of the mechanisms, ..loose/tight screws change the amount of coupling as do the various materials, materials, dimensions, and shapes.

Anything that vibrates in response to the string vibration may either add or subtract from the harmonic content of the vibrating string depending upon its "phase" relationship and "coefficient of coupling" to the other mechanisms involved. Addition is by "in phase" feedback, subtraction is by "out of phase feedback. The "feedback" here is "returned vibrations". Even vibrations in the air from the local speaker cabinet has a measureable effect.

Just to complicate matters, any given string vibrates at many frequencies at once; The result is that the resulting feedback (via the acoustic impedances, coefficients of coupling, etc.) of the connected mechanisms may be in phase for one or more of the source vibrations and out of phase for others in varying degrees.

Is it better or worse to confine the "string vibrations to the string"? Since this cannot be done except perhaps in a single stringed instrument, suffice to say that "energy" leaving the string, at any of the harmonic frequencies involved in the strings vibration will cause the harmonic content of the vibrating string to change with time. This will result in a change of tone and amplitude with time, hence less sustain. All of this is measureable and quantifieable these days; But then each picker will have to decide what is "best" from their perspective.

Pickup location, construction, magnet field (wide/narrow/strength)where it intercepts the vibrating string adds to the problem, as does the pickup's impedance/load etc..and the magnets damping effect upon the various harmonics in strings vibration.

The simpler the mechanisms involved the less the variables that can affect the resulting sound parameters.

And we all know that BLACK guitars sound better, so pay attention to the paint color as well as type!

Edp

Jerry Tillman
Member

From:

posted 23 August 2003 08:29 PM     profile     
I agree with Bobby Seymour about sympathetic vibrations coming from his steel,thats why I tie one of those springs that come off a screen door to the undercarrige and legs of my 66 white leather Emmons,it really seems to bring the sound around,specially when I,m drinkin.lakeshrk

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