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Author
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Topic: Lightning and steel
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Lawrence Lupkin
Member From: Brooklyn, New York, USA
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posted 18 August 2003 12:21 PM
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I was practicing yesterday when a particularly strong thunderstorm passed directly overhead. There was lightning that appeared to strike directly overhead. I could have sworn that I saw somekind of flash come off the strings. Was that possible? Or did the massive sound just scare the $%@* out of me?
Is there any danger in such a situation? Any good stories?Thanks.[This message was edited by Lawrence Lupkin on 18 August 2003 at 12:22 PM.] |
Donny Hinson
Member From: Balto., Md. U.S.A.
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posted 18 August 2003 12:45 PM
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There's no stories that are "good" when lightning is around. What you saw was probably a reflection of the flash, since you felt nothing and your equipment wasn't damaged. Being entangled with wires and metal strings is not a good place to be during an electrical storm. Even if you avoid a major strike, a small surge could easily be induced into your house wiring by a nearby one, and damage your amp, your guitar, or you! No force in nature is as unpredictable as natural lightning, so be safe. Unplug your stuff...and just sit on the sofa 'til the storm passes. |
Carl West
Member From: La Habra, CA, USA
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posted 18 August 2003 12:54 PM
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I'm guessing it was those hot licks you were doing ?
But serious, do what Donny said. Carl West |
Lawrence Lupkin
Member From: Brooklyn, New York, USA
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posted 18 August 2003 12:57 PM
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No Carl, but I do find it rather shocking how poor my playing is sometimes.
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Ray Jenkins
Member From: Gold Canyon Az. Pinal U.S.A.
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posted 18 August 2003 01:03 PM
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I visited with Hollis Pritchett in Flagstaff Az. this past week-end.We were set up in his garage playing along with tracks when a storm Hit.the lights and amps jiggered a little and we decided to watch the storm instead of holding a steel bar and slide it across steel strings.Scary.
Ray------------------
Steeling is still legal in Arizona
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Rick Collins
Member From: Claremont , CA USA
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posted 18 August 2003 02:22 PM
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...good advice. I'd say that playing your electric instrument in a thunderstorm is about as dumb as tying a key to a string and going kite flying.  Lawrence, check your steel seat closely; a roll of toilet tissue is one more thing you may just want to consider carrying in it. |
David Doggett
Member From: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA
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posted 18 August 2003 03:00 PM
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Plug everything into a surge protector strip, not directly into the wall - same as you do for your computer. Even these may not protect against a direct hit, but I wouldn't be without one. |
CrowBear Schmitt
Member From: Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France
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posted 18 August 2003 04:10 PM
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a storm hit here today while i was messin round and yes ! i got up, shut it down and waited for the storm to pass.
as mentioned over in "Computers" recently
a direct strike on ones home is less frequent than strikes on power or phone lines.
these are the most common and cause most of the dammage.
i have 4 surge protectors in various parts of my bear cave as well as the appropriate earth 10/20 ohms
but that don't mean i'll keep it all on and play on Bro'
i don't wanna leave yet
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Ernest Cawby
Member From: Lake City, Florida, USA
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posted 18 August 2003 07:16 PM
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I was in Sams the other day, they had a surge protector for elec,phone, and tv all on one strip, with second multi plug all for $12.00. this was a 12 and a six plugin with a long cord.We bought several. Here in Fl. there is a lot of lightning every thing here is on a surge pro.I take mine on all gigs, just one click turns of everything ernie ernie |
David Doggett
Member From: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA
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posted 18 August 2003 07:47 PM
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Yes indeed, Ernest, that "sunshine state" does have a fair amount of lightening - been there, seen it.  |
Bobby Boggs
Member From: Pendleton SC
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posted 18 August 2003 09:00 PM
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Has anyone anywhere ever heard of steeler being struck or have lighting run in on them enough to cause serious injury? I'm not trying to be a smart ass.Just curious. I've had it run in on an amp while playing but no injury to me. Thanks.....bb |
Donny Hinson
Member From: Balto., Md. U.S.A.
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posted 19 August 2003 12:16 AM
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In my 40+ years of playing music, I've only heard of perhaps half a dozen straight guitar players being struck or killed by lightning. Since they outnumber steelers by at least 100:1, it's not strange that I haven't heard of a steeler being hurt or killed, but I'm willing to bet it's happened!  |
David L. Donald
Member From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand
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posted 19 August 2003 01:22 AM
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I got hit with the same storm as Crowbear a few hours later... impressive! The power went out or blipped 20-30 times, I stopped counting and finished reading The Coffin Dancer.Take his advice, he is an electrician, use surge protectors and shut down when that big rumble comes your way. I have a ISDN wall box for the internet connection to computer and I lost 3 of them last year. There is a forest ranger out west (USA) who has been hit by lightning some where like 5-6 times, he reports he is getting more vague as time goes by.
But not everyone lives afterwards, the more the metal in your vicinity the more likely there will be a BAD problem. But he was just a guy in the wrong places several times, not attached to a large metal
contraption with an electrical potential connected to it...
A steel seems like a real nice target for lightning. |
CrowBear Schmitt
Member From: Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France
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posted 19 August 2003 02:40 AM
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i could be wrong but did'nt a musician from "Stone the Crows" get killed from an electrical shock while playing on stage ? |
MUSICO
Member From: Jeremy Williams in Spain
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posted 19 August 2003 04:48 AM
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I was disappointed with this thread....as I play both pedal steel and "lightning"....the Buchla Lightning, a wonderful Midi controller. It´s (among other things) a set of drumsticks that don't need drums....just wave them in the air and they know where they are and what they should play. I'm not joking, go see....
www.buchla.com Jeremy Williams
Barcelona Spain |
Emmett Roch
Member From: Dripping Springs, Texas
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posted 19 August 2003 05:07 AM
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A couple of nights ago in Barcelona I was on an outdoor stage, and just as we started playing, raindrops started landing on my steel...I put my vinyl cover over my guitar and kept my hands away from it until the sprinkles stopped a few minutes later. I've been bitten by electricity several times in my life, but I don't remember liking it once. ------------------
___________________
GFI S-12 extended E9 |
Rick Collins
Member From: Claremont , CA USA
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posted 19 August 2003 07:59 AM
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Any kind of an electric charge, strong enough to rearrange the electrons in the atomic structure of your body can't be very pleasant to experience. It's my conviction that this is what the inventors of the "electric chair" had in mind. "You can be sure, if it's Westinghouse" |
Bobby Boggs
Member From: Pendleton SC
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posted 19 August 2003 08:23 AM
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Thanks everyone.But I was thinking indoors.I've never heard of or know anyone who knows anyone that was ever injured by lightning while playing indoors. One reason I ask is most all club owners down this way expect you to play thru a thunder storm no matter how bad it is. Thanks ---bb[This message was edited by Bobby Boggs on 19 August 2003 at 08:25 AM.] |
CrowBear Schmitt
Member From: Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France
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posted 19 August 2003 09:51 AM
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the most common dammage caused by lightning is when it hits power lines.
and those power lines will bring the surge right into your living room, club,or studio
so if you're inside or out it don't make a diff,you CAN get hurt.
don't let club owners tell ya to play on during a storm especially if it's close by
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David L. Donald
Member From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand
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posted 19 August 2003 03:31 PM
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I did hear of a kid in NH. playing a metal string acoustic in a small house with no lightning rods... on a hill. Duh!
The house got zottz'd and it came down the wall and went for the strings, shattering the guitar.
He got some splinters, but the guitar joined much of the wall as kindling.
I think he gave up playing after that. Forgot his name. Sometime in the late 60's |
Donny Hinson
Member From: Balto., Md. U.S.A.
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posted 28 August 2003 02:08 PM
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Bobby, there's been many people killed indoors by lightning! I've heard of several cases of people indoors electrocuted by lightning while talking on the telephone, as well as a case of a woman killed while ironing, and a contractor killed while he was cutting wood on a table saw in a basement!Plainly, operating anything that's got wires, holding any metal object, or touching anything that's "plugged in" during an electrical storm is not a good idea. Thousands of people do it, and get away with it, but it's still a bad idea. If I'm working a job, and a big electrical storm hits, I "recommend" that it may be a good time for us to take a break! Luckily, most bad electrical storms are over in a half-hour or less. |
Tony Prior
Member From: Charlotte NC
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posted 29 August 2003 02:29 AM
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Lawrence, did your playing get effected by the lightning ? better or worse ?maybe I need to play out in the driveway during the next storm here in NC.. tp |
Lawrence Lupkin
Member From: Brooklyn, New York, USA
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posted 29 August 2003 05:03 AM
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Well Tony, this is the way I see it: That strike was some higher power's way of telling me to put down the bar for a bit. How good could my tone have been? [This message was edited by Lawrence Lupkin on 29 August 2003 at 05:41 AM.] |
Tony Prior
Member From: Charlotte NC
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posted 29 August 2003 05:39 AM
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Well like they say in Texas.."I heard that "...
tp
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Brett Day
Member From: Greer, SC, USA
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posted 12 July 2006 12:45 AM
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The best thing to do if there's a thunderstorm comin' is to unplug the steel and amp before the storm starts and then you won't have to worry about your steel being hit by lightning. I always unplug my GFI and Peavey Nashville 112 when it starts stormin'. Brett, Emmons S-10, Morrell lapsteel, GFI Ultra D-10 |
Peter
Member From: Cape Town, South Africa
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posted 12 July 2006 04:00 AM
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quote:
I could have sworn that I saw somekind of flash come off the strings. Was that possible?
Lawrence, It is a known fact that when huge amounts of EMF (ElectroMotive Force) are emitted, our brain gets affected, often resulting in visual disturbances. This is what makes people "see" lights or flashes. This effect has been replicated in Labs and has been well documented.Likewise, prior to earthquakes, there are huge stresses in the rock formation underground, resulting in electrical forces being emitted, causing visual disturbances in people. There are lots of reports of light effects or flashes just before an earthquake. ------------------
Peter den Hartogh
1978 Emmons S10 P/P; 1977 Sho-Bud D10 ProIII Custom;
1975 Fender Artist S10; Remington U12; 1947 Gibson BR4;
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Bo Borland
Member From: Cowtown NJ
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posted 12 July 2006 04:29 AM
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Anyone who is playing any type of electric guitar and leans in to use a microphone is asking for a shocking outcome if you don't check the polarity first. With metal picks on one hand and a steel bar in the other, we are making a nice loop for electicity travel on.
On a hot, humid, & sweaty nite, as I leaned in to use the microphone, a white spark the size of a small planet arced to my upper lip, knocked me backwards off my seat and left me with minor burns on my hands where it exited into the strings. Luckily there was no damage to the steel or amp but I check the polarity every night now. In just the last two weeks I saw 2 well known pickers get zapped by faulty ground loops. Forget about playing in a lightning storm, it will not lead to a harmonious outcome. |
Lawrence Lupkin
Member From: Brooklyn, New York, USA
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posted 12 July 2006 05:35 AM
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I apparently learned my lesson as my original post was almost three years ago and I'm still walking around. |
Bill Hatcher
Member From: Atlanta Ga. USA
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posted 12 July 2006 05:36 AM
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There was a blurb on the net a few weeks ago about Ipods being dangerous in a lightning storm. Sure enough a kid was reported to be struck by lighting the other day while listening to music on an Ipod. Think about how much more metal is in a steel guitar than is in an Ipod! |
Robert Leaman
Member From: Murphy, North Carolina, USA
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posted 12 July 2006 07:06 AM
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There is no surge protector manufactured that can protect against a lightning strike. Power utilities do not use surge protectors for transmission lines. They use arrestors that direct the surge to earth ground either by what is called "spinout" or an arc chute to ground. The power line surge is caused by the utility circuit breakers when they reconnect the transmission line. The only sure method for equipment protection during a lightning storm is complete galvanic disconnection. THAT MEANS PLUG THE PLUG! Turning off switches is no protection.For those who are interested, reference the book by Allan Greenwood, "Electrical Transients In Power Systems". ISBN 0 471 32650 X |
Ray Minich
Member From: Limestone, New York, USA
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posted 12 July 2006 07:07 AM
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The energy of a lightning strike hitting a high tension power line travels down the wireline at the speed of 1000 feet per microsecond. Some of them round gray cylindrical doodads hanging from the distribution transformers on power poles are lightning arresters. When they work properly they shunt (bleed off) the lightning stroke energy to ground. When they work improperly they tend to explode...Transmission lines are protected by what are called Station Class Arresters, big round hollow cylinders (looks like a stack of gray 55 gallon drums) full of spark gaps and MOV's (or valve blocks) the diameter of dinner plates. They are designed to take repeated hits for many years. They're called "station class" 'cause you usually install them at the substation.
We used to test the station class arresters in the Million Volt lab at McGraw Edison. What Fun!!! Spray them down with salt water, let it dry, turn out the lights and watch the show.[This message was edited by Ray Minich on 12 July 2006 at 08:16 AM.] |
A. J. Schobert
Member From: Cincinnati OHIO WHO DEY???
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posted 12 July 2006 10:51 AM
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Has it improved your playing? |
John Billings
Member From: Northfield Center, Ohio, USA
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posted 12 July 2006 12:52 PM
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Hatch, I read that story about the kid and his iPod. I think it more likely that the reason he was smacked was that he was riding on a big hunk of metal, and the mower deck was probably in contact with the wet grass. The iPod earphone wires were just the highest contact point. Sort of an aerial.
I think he still woulda got popped without the iPod. |
Wayne Drummond
Member From: Georgia, USA
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posted 12 July 2006 04:39 PM
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In 1987 while playing my Strat with Okolona (our band) in my barn lightning struck nearby. Jimbo, the drummer, described a blue streak similar to an old sci-fi movie effect going up the neck of the Strat. I let out quite a yelp when it hit my left hand. I was not harmed but was quite energized for several hours afterwards. The stories Jimbo tells of my running around the yard with a lightning rod in subsequent storms are somewhat embellished. I am most fortunate to be able to respond to this post. I now fully disconnect at the first sign of a storm.------------------
click here
[This message was edited by Wayne Drummond on 14 July 2006 at 03:39 PM.] |
Wayne Drummond
Member From: Georgia, USA
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posted 12 July 2006 04:44 PM
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don't "click here" I apparently don't know how to do a signature on the forum. It must have been the lightning strike.  [This message was edited by Wayne Drummond on 12 July 2006 at 05:26 PM.] |
Ernest Cawby
Member From: Lake City, Florida, USA
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posted 12 July 2006 10:37 PM
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At the last Saluda show we played thru the storm, it lasted all day with hail, the lights went off several times, once for a while, I was up when the lights went out and my amp made a big noise, we kept on going.ernie |
Klaus Caprani
Member From: Copenhagen, Denmark
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posted 13 July 2006 01:39 AM
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Couldn't the eledged "flash" from the steel, or the thing happening with the neck of the strat have been due to "corona-charge"? (I'm not sure if it's the right word in American).This type of charge is common around powerlines in wet weather, and can be seen visually when it's dark as well, as a faint "glow" engulfing the wires or anything conducting the high voltage/current. |
Rick Garrett
Member From: Tyler, Texas
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posted 13 July 2006 03:02 AM
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We had an old farm out in the country years ago that sat on a hill of iron ore. It was also the last house on that power line (so the power company said) and because of all that, we got hit every time a storm came by. The only way to save appliances was to unplug them from the wall completely. I lost a few tv's an icebox, a Fender Twin and a couple of vcr's at that house. One night as the wife and I lay in bed lighting hit the house and a bright blue ball of lighting ran through the house and out the key hole of the back door. Scariest thing I've ever seen.Rick |
Ray Minich
Member From: Limestone, New York, USA
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posted 13 July 2006 05:33 AM
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I watched a sphere of corona, about the diameter of a beach ball, travel along and track one of the wires of a power line one hot "post-thunderstorm" July night years ago. It came down the mountain tracking the wire, went across the valley and then up the other side. Neat.The followingt is from an article in the latest issue of High performance Composites about lightning strike strategies for composite structures (as in AIRPLANES?!).
"Composite materials are either not conductive at all (e.g., fiberglass) or are significantly less conductive than metals (e.g., carbon fiber), so current from a lightning strike seeks the metal paths available. For that reason, lightning strike protection (LSP) has been a significant concern since the first composites were used on aircraft more than 30 years ago. A variety of metal mesh and expanded foil products, such as this offered by Dexmet, are available to composite manufacturers for lightning strike protection of composites.
If a lightning bolt strikes an unprotected structure, up to 200,000 amps of electricity seeks the path of least resistance. In the process, it may vaporize metal control cables, weld hinges on control surfaces and explode fuel vapors within fuel tanks if current arcs through gaps around fasteners. These direct effects also typically include vaporization of resin in the immediate strike area, with possible burn-through of the laminate. Indirect effects occur when magnetic fields and electrical potential differences in the structure induce transient voltages, which can damage and even destroy onboard electronics that have not been EMF (electromagnetic field) shielded or lightning protected. The need for protection of composite structures has prompted development of a number of specialized LSP materials. "
For some neat pictures check out http://www.compositesworld.com/hpc/issues/2006/July/1366/1 [This message was edited by Ray Minich on 13 July 2006 at 11:17 AM.] |
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