On the 2nd floor there were 2 brand new pro level Fessendens for sale ! A black D10 and S10. I checked them out and tuned them for the sales guy up there. It was great to see such great instruments sitting right in the heart of the NYC music scene.

I'm afraid that this is not the proper place to entice more NYer's into buying a steel.
When I went in, the guitars were set up in such a way that you could not sit behind them.
The salesperson actually told me that they could not be moved. They looked pretty, but it's really kind of hard to sell guitars if you don't let folks play them.

Sam Ash, to their credit, had some Carter Starters in stock on 48th... yes, I was really really surprised about that.

It only got mentioned because i was looking at the Holy Grail they had, and the guy said he had a steel if I wanted to play around with the box.

Sadly, the Grail was not so holy... half-functional, it seemed. but still, thanks to the 800 lb. gorilla for carrying the pedal steel.

I really think that just putting Carter starters on the floor does little.
You need a bar, a volume pedal, and a slaesperson who knows enough to do a simple demonstration is what you need.
Also while we're at it, how about a place in the Big Apple to buy a volume pedal, or .....a ...pick?

Hold on, my alarm clock is ringing, because I know I'm dreaming if I expect this to happen, right?

Times Square is just not the same any more. I prefer the old mafia to the new Disney mafia. Its a damn shame. The theater were I saw "Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS" for the very first time is now a corporate tee shirt emporium.

Bob

[This message was edited by Bob Hoffnar on 18 November 2003 at 10:29 PM.]

There was a Carter Starter at Sam Ash, with 9 strings and out of tune.

There was also Carter Starter at Manny's, just out of tune.

It didn't look like these steels were touched in a long time. I didn't inquire about them as from previous experience, their staff has better things to do than to assist customers.

I went to Rudy's and saw the 2 Fessendens. Unlike the other 2 stores, there was an amp (AER Compact 60), a bar, & picks arranged in an invitingly way and the back of the steels were facing the perspective customer. The message was "try me."

I didn't speak to anyone there about the steels. I was afraid that they would have offered me a job......mopping the floor

I bought an old Tele from Rudy a few years back - he - and the staff - were always helpful, and Rudy remembered my name from previous visits even BEFORE I bought that Tele.

I do enjoy their acoustic room on the second floor - is this where the steels are? There was a very knowledgable guy called John (Italian surname?) who was happy to let me play all the guitars I wanted. On one occasion, I just missed James Taylor's visit - he was recording across the street at 'Right Track', and wandered in to see and play some guitars .....

The most ill-prepared new steel I've ever seen in a music store has to be that Sierra S10 that used to be in Sam Ash on Gallatin.

The 'A' pedal raised the 5th and 10th at least a step and a half, the knee lowered the two 'E's by differing amounts, and the strings were rusty - it'd be hard to imagine anyone being tempted to take the plunge with such an instrument! It wasn't cheap, either...

48th Street today is a skeleton as it once was when I called on every music store on that street for many many years.

Often times 48th street has been the topic
of controversy due to the discounts they offered on brand name merchandise and what is reffered to as "buy it in the box" pay for it and you own it".

Most dealers in all parts of the country did
not ( for use of a better word) approve of the business practice of the Music stores on West 48th Street) as those on 48th street were shipping mail order all over the country
which interfered with their market and customers and for that I can well understand.

This was looked upon by those as being what is known back here as "schlock" meaning dont care for the Customer or Music retailers out of the New York City area like throw it out the door and dont care about the customer.That is highly overstated,but at times it was the case I have to admit. I
had to try to curb that practice and iwas difficult,but my personal relationship with people who owned those stores showed their respect for me and tried hard to please myself and yet satisfy the customer. It happened.

I called on the dealers who made Fender what it is today as well as those all over the USA
Those remaining today are fall short of the proffesional people who operated the music stores back then,,discounts or no discounts.

Most all of the top pro's shopped 48th street not only because of the price advantage but was the "in place" to be.

What remains is the skeleton of the great people and great stores that were the original West 48th street.

Terminal Music (first ever Fender Dealer)
Jimmys Music Shop ( another first ever Fender dealer with a small store and one main
line on merchandise FENDER)

Ponte Music primarily a band Instrument specialty shop with knowledgable musicians who knew how to merchandise and sell a product.

It was in 1965 after many years of trying to obtain the Fender dealership that I myself made the decision to open Manny Goldrich as a Fender dealer and I took much flack for that move both locally and all over the USA.

Those store's are no more and many of the people who pioneered lines like Fender,Martin Gibson are also gone as well.

I would call on each of the above mentioned accounts every week like clock work and although the competetive feeling amongst them was there, off the ball field they were all friends. Many times lunch was a Tuna salad sandwich with Manny using a using a Dual Showman amp as a table other times was a real treat having a great Pastrami sandwich brought in from the Second Ave delicatessen, having lunch in ths store behind the counter with Bucky Pizzerelli and Tony Mottola.

Sometimes we really lived it up and had a hot dog from a vendor on the corner of 6th Ave and West 48th street,,and yes we got a discount and extra mustard and sauerkraut because of who we were, we were reffered to as "The Rat Pack of 48th St. The so called competitors were friends and many times had dinner as a group at Patsys in Manhattan and we had fun regardless that those at the table were competing during the day,but friends after dark.Few people realized this.

Frank had Dean,Sammy,Joey,Peter, we had our own pack and a closer bond you couldnt find,
Am I bragging?? sure and I am proud of it.

I have been to the bar mitsvah's and the funerals the church services the marriage of their children,the mourning over a loved one called a "shivah" and I'm not Yiddish but it mattered not and the parties over the years and I could not have had a better bunch of friends that those I mentioned.

Sam Ash did not come on the scene till later on in the late 60's Ash was a Brooklyn,Long Island based operation,when Terminal closed Jerry and Paul Ash moved into West 48th St.

In my time there was no shortage of steel guitars,,I saw to that and many pedal 1000 2000's and non pedal steel guitars were sold by those above and they knew how to sell them and I helped maintain them for them as well. That was my job.

The last store to move in was Rudy after Rockefeller purchased a large part of W48th street,Jimmy chose to accept the payout and closed. Manny built a beautiful new store that you see today which is owned by Sam Ash Inc.

I went to 48th street a few years ago and had to leave,because the memories of those people who have gone and the excitment of what I recall was no more.

I dont consider myself being "off topic here" which I have been accused of more than
once,I just wanted to give you a tiny piece
of the history of 48th street that was a big part of my life as well as the friends I had back then.

I raised two children and my life was on that street with many of the well known artists of today both with Fender and other music greats.

Thats all I have to say and this is only a small part of my memories of that well known sometimes disliked street. Speak kindly when you speak of the 48th street this Fender saleman remembers.

It would take me weeks and weeks to tell all of you what my expieriences were on West 48th street.

You will have a chance to read about it soon.

Thanks for your time my friends.Long story yes,but not long enough to acknowledge those
I had and still have the highest respect for

If you see a vendor selling Hot Dogs and Hot Chestnuts,mention my name,you may get a little more sauerkraut and a few extra nuts.
Make certain the vendor washes his hands before serving,bring along a Dual Showman box and sit down on the corner and have a great lunch,It dont get any better than that.

[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 19 November 2003 at 01:32 PM.]

It all began years ago by a couple of partners Herb Horland & Harry Silver known in the music industry as Silver & Horland
who operated out of Park Row near the bridge that connected NYC to Brooklyn.

It was there that Manny Goldrich Sr started as a clerk as well as Ed Meyers who later opened his store Terminal Music on West 48th st as well as Manny Goldrich.

It was Silver & Horland who would offer the lowest selling price to sell the product and work on the theory,,save the customer money and we have a loyal customer.

Silver & Horland closed their doors back in the mid 1960's and Harry Silvers son Richard
bought out Terminal music.But not long after
when the bubble burst and the retail business took a nosedive,,Richard Silver pulled out and went into an un related venture with his wife.

When people speak of W 48th st.I can say with authority that I am one of the few if NOT the only one who was there when it all took place.

Have a Great Holiday

Broadway Joe

[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 19 November 2003 at 02:10 PM.]

I could tell you similar stories about London's music stores in the 'fifties and early 'sixties before the invasion of the 'guitar supermarket' mentality.

The guys in those stores knew their stuff and cared for the customer. A friendly rivalry existed, but my abiding memory is of Jimmy Frost, Mike King, Jim Marshall (who went on to found the amplifier manufacturing business) and a dozen others.

The much-beloved Pete Dyke - an amazing jazz guitarist - who would patiently offer his knowledge and wisdom to us younger players. He would gently make fun of our efforts (he prefered extended chords to Buddy Holly solos!), but was endlessly encouraging of our aspirations. A wonderful man who is sadly missed.

Where are the 'Pete Dykes' today? Not in any store I'VE seen in the last twenty years - going to a music store now is no more exciting than calling into Home Depot.

When I came to NYC for the first time in the mid-nineties, I made a bee-line for 48th Street 'cause I just HAD to see Mannies! Well, it was a big disappointment - ill-adjusted guitars carelessly banging against each other in too-little-space, and 'salespersons' barely worthy of the title.

Jody, I didn't know the 48th Street that you describe, but I can promise you that I can easily imagine it......

Best,

I have the exclusive on "Sabrett" frankfurters. Roll is optional. Look for me,I have a Tweed covered umbrella

edited to add relish

[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 19 November 2003 at 02:18 PM.]

---had an awful knish the other day. But I guess you could find an awful one back then too.

[This message was edited by Jon Light on 19 November 2003 at 02:58 PM.]

Talk about blackpanel, though...maybe it needs new gelfilte caps...

Jody, thanks very much for your posts! You da Man!

[This message was edited by John McGann on 19 November 2003 at 05:17 PM.]

No one know this..but I may as well tell you.

CBS stands for C orned B eef S andwich.

Edited to add Penicillin Chicken Soup.

I used to say that CBS stood for

C onstant B ull S.....T thats when I left

[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 19 November 2003 at 05:36 PM.]

quote:

---

I'll even pay extra for the relationship

---

It's true that48th street is but a shadow of what it once was..too bad.
There's a very cool shop called W30st Vintage guitars= between 6th and 7th

My experience visiting these stores around the country is that they get mad at you if you DON'T play their guitars. Also, each store has a nice vintage collection.

See: http://www.guitarcenter.com/grandopenings/810manhattan/index.shtml

------------------
www.samminnitti.com

Mark..the manufacturers today train their salesman on keyboard and pro audio. Thats about it.I knew drum saleman that didnt know a bass drum from a tom tom..One of them told me he was having a tough time selling his drum line.I told him you need to know the prodcuct,,he said how? by reading? I said no by playing,he said I cant play drums,I told him you dont have to,looka here,,,this is a bass drum "big drum" BOOM BOOM and he said OK whats next??I said now we have small drum
bing bing,,he said whats bing bing? I said the big drums kid brother the "TOM TOM".

He said Oh I see..whats the thing that hits the big drum (meaning the floor pedal) I said the big thing is the jerk drummer who cant play for $hit?.

Then there came the salvation to West 48th Street the name of the small store was
BEN'S MUSIC owned and operated by a man who couldnt speak a word of English all you had to say was 40%off. His full name was BEN GOD...he had a wife who was 4 ft
11 and had a big mouth..I'll have all of this in my book,,Ben was the star of 48th street..if you think this is interesting you aint heard nothin yet or maybe its boring I dont know David I'll call a few people today to confirm that Alex is still with us. I hope he is. Am I boring you? Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz I'll bet Bob Hoffnar is sorry he started this thread.

[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 20 November 2003 at 09:17 AM.]

I called Rudys and Alex is still alive and well. He has an instrument repair shop next door to Rudys. Now I can go and get some cologne from
Rudy and smell just like he smells Then we can smell each other woof woof..

Howard as you know 48th Street has cleaned up its act, even the hookers have business cards and cell phones and you dont have to make a commitment,,they will give you a free audition

Crow CBS has the same call letters as you have. Thats why I posted C onstant B ull
$hit...the only differnce is you are not always constant just sometimes.

NBC. you know what that means?? I aint tellin
Gotta go. Why dont you guys leave me alone.
I have to sell those 24 1/2 long scale hot dogs.
The Tweed Hot Dog Vendor.

[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 20 November 2003 at 09:08 AM.]

A Fender Dual 8 Professional (trapezoidal pick ups) labled as a Stringmaster. I told the manager that he should check out the Fender as it was not a Stringmaster. He said ok, he'll research it. A month later, it was still there, still labled as a Stringmaster.

It appears that steels, old & new, pedal& non pedal, electric & acoustic, don't stand a chance in most of these places.

These big Guitar Centers and such have swallowed the smaller dealer and now the manufacturer is stuck with the problem,,what do I do with them?? Its their problem..If the big dealer falls behind in payments,what does the manufacturer do?? COD? NO CWO NO,,Open account then the Giant sends in a token of payment and a shipment is made and the situation is back to Square ONE...Its these Manufacturers who have caused their own problems and I exclude Peavey..They dont shove any thing down anyone throat,you buy what you can pay for and thats fair business

Thats why I respect Hartley Peavey more than the company I once represented..

Bobbe or Scotty that is the answer.
Edited.I have never owned or played through a Peavey amp due to my connection with Fender
but thats about to change.

[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 20 November 2003 at 04:18 PM.]

I hit 48ths st in Sept. looking for Finalé to score from midi ; not to be found any where except for PC. Idiotic IMHO.

And one Sam Ash salesman told me most of the best producers are not musicians...
of course he didn't know how to demo the product to me and compare it with another high end product. Logic vs Digital Performer.

Yeah right, having a hip hop Grammy makes you a great producer. And some one who doesn't know his stock is an authority on prodution... merde alors!!

Tell that to Quincey Jones, George Martin David Foster, Lloyd Mains and Jerry Douglas.

I wanted to slap the kid silly, like a redheaded stepchild.

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 21 November 2003 at 01:56 AM.]