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Author
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Topic: What am I doing wrong with my B pedal?
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Brad Bechtel
Moderator From: San Francisco, CA
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posted 30 November 2003 01:56 PM
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I just changed strings on my Zumsteel 3+4 and now for some reason the low G# string won't go to A and back properly. If I tune the string to G#, pressing the B pedal lifts the string to a very flat A. If I hold down the B pedal and tune to A, releasing the B pedal returns to a very sharp G#.
I've tried messing with the two plastic hex head tuning nuts at the end of the guitar, but they don't seem to be making an appreciable difference.
What should I be doing? Why would having changed the strings caused a problem?
Any suggestions are welcomed.
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Paddy Long
Member From: Christchurch, New Zealand
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posted 30 November 2003 02:02 PM
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Sounds like you may have put on the wrong gauge string ??? |
Jon Light
Member From: Brooklyn, NY
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posted 30 November 2003 02:05 PM
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I've got to believe that Paddy is right. It will make a significant difference. There are other things to look at but that is the first and most obvious. |
Jon Light
Member From: Brooklyn, NY
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posted 30 November 2003 02:09 PM
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Pt.2---if you confirm that this is the string you meant to use, then you need to increase the pedal travel (I don't know Zum's method but on a Carter there is a tiny set screw in the front apron that is the pedal stop)----and then you will want to back off the nylon tuning nut on the 3rd string to keep it from going sharp. |
Richard Gonzales
Member From: FITCHBURG,MA USA
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posted 30 November 2003 02:14 PM
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I agree with Jon. You need more pedal travel , My MSA also has a set screw at the underside of the apron which allows for more or less pedals travel.[This message was edited by Richard Gonzales on 30 November 2003 at 02:16 PM.] |
Jon Light
Member From: Brooklyn, NY
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posted 30 November 2003 02:20 PM
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Sorry to hog this but----
The single most important factor I have encountered with tuning problems is when the plastic hex tuner on the changer is overtuned--over tightened. There must be slack in it when at rest. You should be able to grab the nut with your fingers and move it in and out a fraction--I dunno, 1/16" or less--before it engages the changer. If you tighten the nylon nut and the pitch of the open string raises, then you are in trouble. It will return erratically and you have also shortened the effective pitch range of the pedal. So file this away as an important FAQ, whether it applies to your situation or not. |
Lee Baucum
Member From: McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) - The Final Frontier
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posted 30 November 2003 03:45 PM
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Brad - You say "I've tried messing with the two plastic hex head tuning nuts at the end of the guitar". Why are you messing with two of these tuners? Do you have a split tuning set up on that string? In other words, do you have the ability to lower that string from G# to F# with a knee lever and then raise it up to a G natural with the pedal? ------------------
Lee, from South Texas
Down On The Rio Grande |
Brad Bechtel
Moderator From: San Francisco, CA
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posted 30 November 2003 04:32 PM
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Lee, I am able to lower the string to G natural using my RKR lever. I suppose if I adjusted it even more, I could lower it further. Up until the time I changed the strings, I was able to get the B pedal to work properly on this string. The other high G# goes up to A properly with the same pedal.
Perhaps it is the string gauge - time to change that particular string again and see what happens. |
Bobby Lee
Sysop From: Cloverdale, North California, USA
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posted 30 November 2003 04:35 PM
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Sounds like what happens when you switch from a plain to a wound string. |
Tom Wicks
Member From: Coombs, British Columbia, Canada
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posted 30 November 2003 06:40 PM
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YEP, SOUNDS LIKE YOU PUT ON A WOUND STRING, IF THATS IT, JUST BRING IT TO PITCH ON YOUR NYLON HEX SCREWS. tOM |
Patrick Ickes
Member From: Upper Lake, CA USA
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posted 30 November 2003 07:34 PM
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Hi Brad,
You may have to change the position of the rod in either the changer and/or the bell crank. Sounds like you went from a plain string to a wound one, and the 6th string is where many sets draw the line. Replace that string with a plain one, or change the rod position.
Pat |
David Friedlander
Member From: New York, New York, USA
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posted 30 November 2003 11:30 PM
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Brad- I had the exact same experience- by any chance, did you buy an "Ernie Ball" pedal steel set?
When I first starting playing, I did.
Your string #6- G3 should be a plain string- NOT wound.
I would suggest you change nothing exept the string. |
Bengt Erlandsen
Member From: Brekstad, NORWAY
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posted 30 November 2003 11:55 PM
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Same as Jon Light said. Had the same problem on my Zum when I re-rodded the pulls. To verify that the nylon tuner is not overtightened, look underneath the guitar at the raise and lower finger and see if they both are resting at the stop-plate and not resting at the nylon tuner. It is also a good place to look to verify that the pulls are syncronized(start at the same time)
To fix the problem there should be a stop screw on the cross-shaft for the B-pedal (and all other pedals as well) that need to be backed off to allow for more pedal travel ( but don't back off the set screw too much or the pull rod might fall out of the slot where it is located on the cross-shaft. Bengt Erlandsen
Zumsteel S12extE9 7+7 [This message was edited by Bengt Erlandsen on 30 November 2003 at 11:59 PM.] |
Mike Perlowin
Member From: Los Angeles CA
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posted 01 December 2003 01:40 AM
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Brad, since you in the Bay area, I suggest you take the guitar to Tom Bradshaw and have him take a look. Tom is a terrific repairman. I've driven up to his house (389 miles each way) to have him work on my guitars more than once. |
Earnest Bovine
Member From: Los Angeles CA USA
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posted 01 December 2003 03:00 AM
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Zum steels don't have screws to adjust the stop. The stop is fixed, but you can adjust the start if you need more or less rotation on the cross shaft. |
Bengt Erlandsen
Member From: Brekstad, NORWAY
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posted 01 December 2003 03:12 AM
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A picture would say more than a 1000 words. Sorry for my confusing explantion. Earnest got it right. The stop screw I mentioned is the one that controls the start of the cross-shaft. And if there is not enough rotation of the cross-shaft the string will return sharp after tuning the raise at the nylon-tuners and releasing pedals.Bengt[This message was edited by Bengt Erlandsen on 01 December 2003 at 03:15 AM.] |
Bill Hankey
Member From: Pittsfield, MA, USA
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posted 01 December 2003 07:24 AM
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I have found the nylon hex adjustments to be deceiving. They are known to "slip" under pressure. I was lucky when I developed an all pull system that is far removed from the constant need to pay special attention to slippages, and improper rod adjustments. The best "cue" is to allow for a relaxed state in the entire set-up. Any binding, or failure to return to pitch is a no-fail indication, that mechanical adjustments will rectify the problem.Bill H. |
Brad Bechtel
Moderator From: San Francisco, CA
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posted 01 December 2003 09:00 AM
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I did try a set of Ernie Ball pedal steel strings. Everything everyone's said has made sense, but this particular thing is probably what happened.I'll let you guys know after I get home tonight and change that string again. Thanks to everyone for the help. |
David Friedlander
Member From: New York, New York, USA
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posted 01 December 2003 03:07 PM
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I repeat- DO NOT CHANGE ANYTHING ON YOUR GUITAR TILL YOU CHECK THE STRINGIf you do, then you'll be stuck trying to get your axe back to square one once you put the correct string on. Everyone's suggestions are great- except this: you should never need to make substantive adjustments on your guitar simply because you changed strings- UNLESS you used different gauge strings, or substitute wound for non wound. It really is a great idea to learn how to service your own axe. I learned how to change my own copedant and pedal/knee lever action ( thanks a ton to Jon Light for his assistance) BUT if you mess up your guitar by trying to adjust stuff you are not familiar with YET, you'll have an even bigger problem. BTW- You'd think Ernie Ball Co would finally understand the proper gauges for a pedal steel........WRONG |
C Dixon
Member From: Duluth, GA USA
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posted 01 December 2003 03:32 PM
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David,Bless you!!!! Amen and amen and amen. No truer words were ever soken. carl |
Patrick Ickes
Member From: Upper Lake, CA USA
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posted 01 December 2003 09:15 PM
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David,
I think Ernie Ball has the gauge correct, it's just that they use a wound string which takes more tension to bring it to tune.
Come on Brad, what's the deal. We're all holding our breath. 
Pat |
Brad Bechtel
Moderator From: San Francisco, CA
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posted 02 December 2003 08:30 AM
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You can let go now. It was the string (a .22 wound from the Ernie Ball pedal steel string set). I replaced it with a .20 plain string and it tuned right up and works fine now.THANKS to everyone for their suggestions and ideas. I can't believe the fix was so simple. ------------------
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