I'm getting myself into a potentially hairy improv situation coming up soon and was looking for a couple ways to imply jazz sounds on E9. My main approach right now is to use the D lever and make string 10 the root - the cool, basic 6th sound, with B pedal lending the flat 7th... Other 7th chord voicings I'm pretty comfortable with... Basic ii/V substitution to get the 9th chord I'm shaky but somewhat OK with.

Oops! You stated that in your original post. Sorry for the redunancy!

[This message was edited by Grant Johnson on 10 December 2003 at 08:42 AM.]

Some general things that help with jazz on E9 are:

With the AB pedals down you have a 6th tuning with the 6ths on strings 1 and 7. I have a RKV that pulls those two strings to the flatted 7th.

Any minor chord is also a 6th chord. The E lower lever gives you a tuning very similar to C6. The A pedal alone gives a minor tuning that is good for minor blues. You can move these minor/6ths around on a lot of frets you would never expect. The more you learn to use all the ways to get minors, the better you will be at jazz.

The F lever alone gives a diminished chord, and every 4 frets gives a different inversion of the same chord. These are common in older jazz.

Finally, 9th chords are common in jazz. Don't forget that the E9 tuning itself is a 9th chord very similar to the open F9 chord of the C6 neck, especially with the E lower lever.

4/---3--6--8--9--10--13--15--|
5/---3--6--8--9--10--13--15--|
6/---------------------------|
7/---3--6--8--9--10--13--15--|
 

Drew

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www.newslinkassociates.com
www.drewhoward.com

I listen to alot of piano players. I'm intrigued at the closeness of their chords to each other. Very few parallel jumps of more that a 2nd. Alot of the time the jump is chromatic, with the top note being the same. I'm still shocked at how much is on the E9th tuning with a "student" pedal setup, chord wise.

Something I found, new to me, a few months back is playing a 1 major 7th with an added 6th out of the 6th position with just the B pedal. For instance, F major 6th, 10th fret, B pedal down, play strings 10, 9, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2 lowered 1/2, and 1. A nice turn around using this, 10th fret b pedal down, strum 10 and 9 with the thumb and pick 7 and 6. Slide back one fret and let off the b pedal, slide back one more fret to the 8th fret and push pedal b again, then let off the b pedal. Finish with the F chord of your choice. This change has been there all these years, even on a Maverick.

To me the E9th tuning has a prettier sound than the C6th because of its higher pitch, lighter strings, tighter tension. All these mean more sustain and the notes come out clearer and don't run together, especially when your mixed in with a band.

[This message was edited by Randy Beavers on 12 December 2003 at 11:06 AM.]

Tony>Drew>Bengt>Don - thanks for the charted-out stuff!

Ken - thanks for the info on the 11th chord!

Ward, thanks for the the note on Don's book...And the "B6 lap" comment - that is good, solid common sense that I tend to forget!

Randy, I have only been playing seriously for about 18 months - but I relate 100% to your comment about not wanting to be "position oriented" - it's one my fears because as a novice it's so natural to fall into visual patterns & "motor memory"...

Because I know I'll never unlock all the possibilities of E9, and that there are so many good ways to imply those rich, jazzy chords - I have committed to stick with my SD10 indefinitely - even though it sure is tempting to jump into C6 when you hear those big, fat sounds in can produce....

[This message was edited by Nathan Delacretaz on 12 December 2003 at 07:15 AM.]

Ext. E9 12
5/-------6--7--8---
6/---8-------------
7/-------6--7--8---
8/---8L------------
9/-----------------
10/----------------
11/------6--7--8---
12/--8-------------

Drew

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www.newslinkassociates.com
www.drewhoward.com

I would go melodic and textural. I use those big 6 chords for idiomatic gestures only in the new improv stuff. Its like putting a cowboy hat on whatever the music is. And that is not always the right thing to do.

Try to think like a cello player with a better range.

I often find the E9 tuning is a better voice for the new improv music you are talking about. I switch necks back and forth all night on jam band improv gigs.

What I do is sing something in my head along to the music and then I play it as best I can.

Those gigs are usually pretty fun unless you get a slapping bass player or the drummer sucks.

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Bob
upcoming gigs
My Website

[This message was edited by Bob Hoffnar on 26 December 2006 at 07:00 PM.]

Bob Hoffnar is right, for modern sounds stay away from 6th chords and AB pedal mashing.

I would also add a pull that drops the the high B to an A, that gets you a nice half-step interval. I maj/maj7 and I min sus 2.

cheers,
Drew

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Drew Howard - website - Red guitars sound better!

Gabriel

[This message was edited by Gabriel Stutz on 27 December 2006 at 12:34 PM.]

From low to high your voicings will be

Root
Minor 3rd
4th
5th
dom 7th
root
4th
dom 7th
minor 3rd
5th

Those open sounding quartal or sus chords are sitting right in that position.

Dave Easley has a lever (string actually) that moves up one of his E notes on his C6 neck to get the same sort of sus thing.
Dave is the most advanced jazz or rock type player I have ever heard. Its hard to put his playing in context with anybody else.

------------------
Bob
upcoming gigs
My Website

[This message was edited by Bob Hoffnar on 27 December 2006 at 12:55 PM.]

Thanks. Thats a new thing to me. I'll try it tonight.

quote:

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stay away from 6th chords

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In many situations a 6th chord, as well as diminished 7th and some others, will sound dated IF they are used in typically dated harmonic contexts. However, keep in mind that 6th chords are re-spellings of minor 7th chords, which are NEVER dated and can be used in a myriad of hip-sounding ways. Also, otherwise traditional/dated sounding harmonies that are used in less typical harmonic contexts can sound fresh. For example, play a 6th chord over the II7 or V7. Basically, you are creating a 13th chord harmony but not in conventional way. I've used this little trick on occasion and will get a smile from a player or two because of it. Simple but effective. Also, any somewhat dated harmony can be made edgy and outside with one of two embellishments or alterations. Take a G6 chord for example, and lower the B to a A, or raise the B to an C, or add an F note into the lower register, now you have a more modern sound. Just some additional ways of looking at things.