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Principles of Good Backup

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Author	Topic: Principles of Good Backup
Steve Benzian Member From: Burlingame, CA USA	posted 20 January 2004 11:54 AM profile This important part of what we do on the bandstand is not well covered in most instruction. What are the do's and dont's that you guys rely on? Playing pretty fills in the holes beween the words of the song is what I try to do....I try to lay out for a whole verse and chorus so it doesn't get tiresome. There must be rules to follow that help. Thanks for any suggestions.
C Dixon Member From: Duluth, GA USA	posted 20 January 2004 12:03 PM profile Jeff Newman says, "Learn what NOT to play". This suggests of course that there can be too much. And it is more than just filling up the gap between singers's phrases. The two best in the world at backup IMO, are Jerry Byrd and Buddy Emmons. As Ray Charles said, "he (BE) gets into my mind and plays what I feel". In a word, backup should be an extension of the singer rather than a separate entity. carl
Walter Stettner Member From: Vienna, Austria	posted 20 January 2004 12:12 PM profile Right! I heard and read that in many statements from top musicians, that they want to listen to the singer's voice first, so they can get a better feeling for backing up. Listen to all those legends, Lloyd Green, Pete Drake, Jimmy Day, Buddy Emmons, Paul Franklin, they can play exactly to that point, that's what usually makes us all listen and still talk about those songs decades after they've been recorded! Walter www.austriansteelguitar.at.tf ------------------ [This message was edited by Walter Stettner on 20 January 2004 at 12:13 PM.]
Eric West Member From: Portland, Oregon, USA	posted 20 January 2004 01:56 PM profile Get some Old Ernest Tubb records, on CD I guess. Any of them will have THE FINEST backup on them. Especially the Charleton Years, ( 61-75 or so) Also Lorreta Lynn, Tammy Wynette, and Johnny Paycheck. With the ABOVE in mind, many players that "don't play during vocals" just do so because they don't want to play, or don't follow the examples of the artists I mentioned. If you have to pick between not playing at all, and playing too much, do yourself a favor, pick the latter. It's more fun. The sooner you realise that it's the "you" show, the sooner you will realise how to make vocalists sound better and LIKE you. It's in Your Hands. Paradoxical? Life is too. EJL
Steve Benzian Member From: Burlingame, CA USA	posted 20 January 2004 03:58 PM profile One other thing for me is that the backup should be shared with the other instruments and you need to take turns and not play over each other. That's the way recordings are done...but it's sometimes a free for all on the bandstand....we ususally agree who will take the intro but then......it's off to the races.
Paddy Long Member From: Christchurch, New Zealand	posted 20 January 2004 08:22 PM profile Listen to what the other guys are doing, and make sure you all the players have eye contact - The hardest thing to learn is when not to play !!
Wayne Baker Member From: Vacaville California	posted 20 January 2004 08:25 PM profile First, I like to look over my right shoulder, left for those of you in NZ. Then shift into reverse... Oh wait, you meant bandstand backup, my bad Wayne Baker
George Kimery Member From: Limestone, TN, USA	posted 20 January 2004 09:04 PM profile Paul Franklin said something on his tape on playing backup that has stuck with me. He says he listens to the words of the song to get ideas for an appropriate fill. If Texas is mentioned, then maybe a little Texas swing lick will work. If raindrops are mentioned, then some little chime that could suggest rain drops. A hard driving hell bent, whisky drinking song, then something really gutsy and robust sounding. If a girl is singing a pretty song, then a sweet delicate lick, etc. Of course, most of us don't have Paul's ability to create a lick on the spot that just seems to match the occasion, but I think it is a good principle and something that we can strive for. [This message was edited by George Kimery on 20 January 2004 at 09:05 PM.]
Mike Cass Member From: Nashville,Tn. U.S.A.	posted 20 January 2004 10:14 PM profile Stay out of the singers way
Bengt Erlandsen Member From: Brekstad, NORWAY	posted 20 January 2004 10:58 PM profile Listen to the music. Find the groove. Understand and feel the rhythm. Don't play for yourself. Play together w the band (means listening to what the other band members do). Practise and play long enough to get a feel for what everything from staccato notes (short notes, long pause) to legato notes(long notes, short pause) and all variations in between will do for the rhythm, even though all notes come out at the same tempo/rate. When playin in between the vocals one does not need to play a different lick everytime. Repeating the same lick might also do the trick. Maybe with a slight variation but not necessarly. Not playing every verse, chorus at the same level (110%). Make sure the band has room (level) to bring the song both up/down from everything to real soft/quiet to loud. Using dynamics as part of the playing is something that can make the difference between a good/bad performance of the song beeing played. Bengt Erlandsen [This message was edited by Bengt Erlandsen on 20 January 2004 at 11:03 PM.]
Johan Jansen Member From: Europe	posted 21 January 2004 07:17 AM profile a blue bonett in a field of orchidees attracks attention, more than the most beautifull orchidee in the middle of it., because it's lonely and seldom and unexpected.
Ricky Littleton Member From: Steely-Eyed Missile Man from Orlando, Florida USA	posted 21 January 2004 07:18 AM profile Listen to John Hughey on Conway's "Baby's Gone". IMHO that, my friends, is how back-up should be!!! But of course I could be wrong... Ricky ------------------ Emmons LeGrande - 8x4 Session 400 Ltd Dan-Echo, E-Bow, Ibanez Distortion, Boss Comp./Sustain, Ibanez Auto-Wah
Ray Minich Member From: Limestone, New York, USA	posted 21 January 2004 09:19 AM profile Absence makes the ear grow fonder...
Richard Tipple Member From: Ohio, USA	posted 21 January 2004 09:56 AM profile As a steel player in a band, our instrument stands out from the other players for the most part. As such we must display a large amount of self control. It is not the steel player & the rest of the band show. No, its the singer & the band. Never let the steel overcome the rest of the band & get in the way of the star of the show. Overplaying & telling the audience,,hay look what I can play,,aint it pretty,,is a big no no in the professional bands. Sure there are people in the crowd who would like to hear steel constantly on every song, but the majority of the crowd will tire very fast from hearing the steel constantly. Listen to almost any quality professional group TV or anywhere and you will see how the musicians are conducting themselves on stage through thier playing and actions. I have set in with more than I care to mention,amature groups, when not on the road with my main group, and it never fails,,when I lay out on songs ,there is always another musician in the group asking whats wrong ? Since it takes too long to explain,, I just say ,nothing With a lead guitarist and a rythem guitarist pounding away,,why would a steel player want to add to this amature madness Be professional at all times,,milk the crowd with your playing. Make them want to hear your next lick or solo, dont try to shove it down thier throughts. This will get to professional playing status faster than anything and people will remember the steel player after the show, and its what the professional groups are looking for in a steel player. Its not so much what you play,,its when you play. ------------------ Untitled Page
Ray Montee Member From: Portland, OR, USA	posted 22 January 2004 10:11 AM profile LIke Eric West suggested....go back in time, to some "OLD" Ernest Tubb records but don't stop in the 1980's........go further back to about 1939 to 1942. There you'll find some of the most fantastic steel guitar back-up ever to be heard. How about "Waiting for A Train"? Fabulous steel work by someone. OR, you can listen to Lulu Belle & Scotty with the greatest steel guitar back-up artist ever to live.......on their beautiful tune: "Each Time You Leave". This can be heard NOW on the: www.jerrybyrdfanclub.com site. Absolutely essential if you want to discover how it's done. One does not have to "copy" another musician's style; nor to get confused about pedal vs. non-pedal. Study what you hear on this tune and then figure out "WHY?" it was done that way. LOL
Fred Glave Member From: McHenry, Illinois, USA	posted 22 January 2004 02:05 PM profile I think what we are basically talking about is the arrangement of the song. I like to think that everyone in the band is an instrumentalist, including the vocalist. When the vocals are present, other instruments hang back and lay low, keeping an appropriate rhythm, or resting. During a piano, steel, or fiddle solo, the other instruments not featured at that point in the song do likewise. The instrumental fills that occur between vocal phrases as well as other instrumental phrases must be arranged in an organized fashion. Not necessarily for content as much as for the timing and duration. Back in the old days, and in many circles today, arrangement was/is still done on sheet music. Someone in the band would be the arranger, and write out everyone's part...when to come in, when to rest, how loud to play, when to play softly etc. Artistic freedom and improvisation should be encouraged in most cases as long as it occurs during your turn at bat, or if it doesn't mean deviating from an instrumental duet, or something that was specially written for your instrument. One doesn't have to be a Mozart, just be able to follow the charts and know when your part(s) come up. In time and through repetition these arrangements become memorized, and a hot band can bring songs to a higher, and seemingly more complex level each time they perform. I think that when multi-tracking capability became available in recording studios, the mixing engineer could do much of this arrangement post recording. This led to the emergence of more "strictly ear musicians" versus readers. As for live performances, a band that doesn't do some simple/basic charting out of it's music is either going to spend many hours rehearsing, or risk sounding amateur at their gigs for a longer period until they achieve that tight sound. Also the arguing, and bickering between band members trying to hold onto their instrumental dominance, and those just trying to get some licks in can be avoided. [This message was edited by Fred Glave on 22 January 2004 at 03:48 PM.]
Ray Montee Member From: Portland, OR, USA	posted 22 January 2004 07:48 PM profile Fred.....by no means am I attempting to steel your thunder or to publicly disagree with you...... With my many years of playing on live radio, live television, before live crowds in concert, etc., NO ONE EVER wrote a single arrangement for ANY of the bands in which I played. For TV, we'd get together and pick the tunes, run thro' them once or twice and more or less figure out where everybody would be coming in........and that was it. From there on, it was maintain eye-contact, keep the ears open, and observe professionalism. Things could change in the blink of an eye and we were always ready for it. It's not hard. Only during recent years have I noted the flagrant WALKING ON EVERYONE ELSE's PART by some of the local crowd; or, loud, piercing E9th pedal work with half-pedal stuff that collided head-on with the vocalist. Contrary to the views of some, having been there, this is a "new" habit not readily condoned by the bands in the olden days........... It was a good rule and one that should be re-evaluated and possibly applied in todays music circles.
Gene Jones Member From: Oklahoma City, OK USA	posted 23 January 2004 05:26 AM profile Ray is correct. There was a time that to play a note on top of someone else's note was unforgivable, whether playing lead, backup, or whatever. To do so accidently, meant spending the next intermission apologizing for it! To do so purposely, meant not being hired again! Some new players learn by listening and playing along with recordings and fail to realize that a recording is arranged to stay within the time alloted for the song, usually about 3 minutes. A problem may come later when playing with bands and trying to play the same thing in the real world as he hears on a recording. Except on a cover show, a song will unlikely ever be played again exactly like it was recorded, because the nature of a recording will usually bend or break every rule of bandstand etiquette. In the real world of the bandstand, a three minute song is unrealistic, and most bands will not have four hours of "arranged" material....so understanding the basic band-stand rules and the use of "visual" cues between players is necessary. www.genejones.com [This message was edited by Gene Jones on 23 January 2004 at 08:16 AM.]
James Morehead Member From: Durant, Oklahoma, USA	posted 23 January 2004 07:25 AM profile Ray and Gene make the most sense to me.
Fred Glave Member From: McHenry, Illinois, USA	posted 23 January 2004 08:42 AM profile Ray and Gene, I actually agree with you! The majority of bands that I've played with in the past 30 years follow the exact approach you've described. I still think that we're talking about arrangement of music. For you, and many others that reach a higher plateau in professional performance, you become quite good at doing this with as little effort required, and by speaking the language, so to speak. I was trying to give a history, with my references going WAY back in time. That is, with orchestras' and big bands where there may be 10, 15 to 30 instruments, or more, sometimes playing together for the first time. I guess that wasn't relevant to some, but it was only meant to underscore the role of arrangement of music, regardless of the method. I still believe that bands and musicians that learn to use charts waste less time getting things going.
Gene Jones Member From: Oklahoma City, OK USA	posted 23 January 2004 10:27 AM profile Fred my friend, we are actually saying the same thing.... we are speaking of "charted" jobs as opposed to "winging it"....and the differences between them. Both viewpoints are valid. I appreciate your knowledge and professionalism....keep up the good work! Best wishes, www.genejones.com
Fred Glave Member From: McHenry, Illinois, USA	posted 23 January 2004 11:33 AM profile Thanks Gene, by the way, I love that website of yours...great pictures!
Eric West Member From: Portland, Oregon, USA	posted 23 January 2004 11:58 AM profile quote: the nature of a recording will usually bend or break every rule of bandstand etiquette EJL [This message was edited by Eric West on 23 January 2004 at 12:36 PM.]

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