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  p/p breaking 3rd string... i need help please

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Author Topic:   p/p breaking 3rd string... i need help please
Chris Erbacher
Member

From: Sausalito, California, USA

posted 23 February 2004 11:08 PM     profile     
hey guys, i need some assistance. i have had my p/p for about a month now and i love it, except, it is breaking 3rd strings at record pace, tonite i have broken three just trying to tune up, and i put a new one on yesterday. all others are fine except the third. i lubed the changer and nut and both work smoothly, checked the pedal action and everything seems in perfect adjustment, i'm baffled and frustrated because i am getting everything just right 'cause i have an audition with another band on friday and i want to practice to the band's record before i go in so i at least have some stuff down, and i can't even get it tuned up. i have another guitar (zb d-11/10)but i weighs a ton and i am really digging the sound of the p/p. can someone out there shed some light on my enigma, i would be greatly appreciative of some help right about now. i love this place....
Mike Kowalik
Member

From: San Antonio,Tx.,USA

posted 23 February 2004 11:57 PM     profile     
Chris ...check your email....
David Mullis
Member

From: Rock Hill, SC

posted 24 February 2004 07:31 AM     profile     
Whee exactly are the strings breaking? I use to break 3rds at the tuning key all the time, same syptoms, couldn't get tuned etc until I started putting a few extra wraps on the peg, just enough to clear the hole that the string goes through and that cured the problem. Now I hardley ever break a 3rd unless the strings are way old and needing to be replaced anyway. Hope this helps.

David

Jerry Roller
Member

From: Van Buren, Arkansas USA

posted 24 February 2004 07:51 AM     profile     
Chris, if the string is breaking at the key, cut the replacement string longer and put several wraps on as suggested above by Dave I believe. If it is breaking at the changer be sure you are not pulling it past pitch. It can't stand that. Leaving it maybe a half tone flat, press the pedal and check it and see if it is up close to "A" and checking as you go bring it up to "A" when the pedal is pressed. Then release the pedal and tune the "Ab" with the bottom tuning screw at the endplate. You probably know already but just make sure you know the proceedure for tuning the raise. Your pull might have drifted up.
Jerry
C Dixon
Member

From: Duluth, GA USA

posted 24 February 2004 08:01 AM     profile     
Chris,

From what I hear, string breakage is NO problem if "Ya change em often before they go dead".

Sorry I was being facetious. Your experience and question is indeed a serious one and many many players have experienced it more or less since Ralph Mooney added the high G# to A change on our beloved instrument.

Here is the problem:

1. We just gotta have tha change.

2. We are pulling that string to a higher pitch than what the gauge of wire was designed for.

3. MOST guitars break them often. And I mean often. There may be an ocassional scenario where breakage is less, but in most cases this is rare indeed. In all my years of going to steel guitar conventions, I have witnessed third string breakage while a player was playing on stage time and time and time again.

I have also witnessed a 5th string breaking on stage, but only in a few cases. NO where near the number of cases though like the 3rd string.

Now what are some of the solutions if any?

Ok, as the poster said, it depends on where the string breaks. MOST strings break at the top dead center of the changer. However, IF you do break them at the keypeg, adding more wraps IS the answer.
If the string is breaking at the changer, then there are two common causes:

1. Bad string. Believe it or not, THE most common cause of all. Entire batches have been known to be defective right out of the bag. George L spoke about this one year at the ISGC.

2. A burr on the changer finger. You can correct this with some 600 grit wet sand paper. Be careful however, because again in MOST cases even if there was a burr, the most likely cause was still a bad string. And ruining the changer is easily done, if one does not use extreme care when sanding it down.

I have never fooled with burrs even though all of my guitars have experienced grooving and/or burrs due to the string's incredible "bite" at this point in its geometry as it goes over the changer.

In almost every case where a string broke prematurely it was due to a defective string. When I got a new batch, NONE of them broke there even with the grooves and/or burrs.

Incdidently, EVEN in the best of circumstances, the 3rd string IS by far the first string to experience premature breakage. Again the root cause is it is being stretched tighter than what the physics of the string should have to bear.

Good luck and may Jesus bless you in your quests,

carl

A Better Way

David Doggett
Member

From: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA

posted 24 February 2004 08:16 AM     profile     
Try the Jagwire 0.0115.
Ray Jenkins
Member

From: Gold Canyon Az. Pinal U.S.A.

posted 24 February 2004 08:42 AM     profile     
Troy Poter from Globe Az. showed me the best stringbreaker stopper I ever used.A big rubber eraser,when you change strings rub the changer clean also around the key hole where the string goes through.The eraser actually removes a small burr.When you cut your string,cut it longer for more wraps.This has always worked for me.
Ray

------------------
Steeling is still legal in Arizona

[This message was edited by Ray Jenkins on 24 February 2004 at 08:43 AM.]

[This message was edited by Ray Jenkins on 24 February 2004 at 08:45 AM.]

richard burton
Member

From: Britain

posted 24 February 2004 11:52 AM     profile     
I have, in the past, played PSG's which are difficult to get a decent tone from. On one of these, I realised that it was the decay of the note, after the string had been picked, that was causing the bad tone. It was most apparent on strings 3 4 5. So I set about making something that would control the duration of the decay of the note. I placed a thin piece of plastic under the string where it goes over the changer finger. This muted the decay, whilst not detracting anything from the initial picked string tone, and cured the bad tone problem, and as an extra benefit I noticed that the 3rd string lasted forever. It just never broke. This was an unexpected bonus.
R B
Sonny Miller
Member

From: Lino Lakes, Minnesota, USA

posted 24 February 2004 12:26 PM     profile     
Chris, I had some strange problems the other day. I tried about 6 different kind of strings for the 3rd string and everyone broke.I reached a point where i was going to change over to a D9 tuning. Which I did! I tuned to D9, and the strings just did not feel right, THEN, I noticed on my old Boss tuner that the setting was on C# instead of the C setting. I switched it back and found every was at least one full tone higher, and of course it tuned right up, with no problems since. I was actually trying to tune the G# to A# and then pull it up to be a B.Which was impossible to do. So Check your tuner first, and, I did notice that the more winds I had on the tuner the better i was able to get a higher tuned string. So I did learn alot that day!

MSA-D10, Emmons Pedal,Delta Blues Amp


Patrick Ickes
Member

From: Upper Lake, CA USA

posted 24 February 2004 07:23 PM     profile     
Chris,
Without knowing "where" the string is breaking, no one can really give you any solid advise.

Patrick

Bob Carlucci
Member

From: Candor, New York, USA

posted 24 February 2004 07:36 PM     profile     
Chris.. just for laughs,put a drop of light motor oil [3 in 1 oil or similar]on the changer under that high g# and see what happens... right under the string,making sure the entire area the string rides on is covered. I have been doing this for as long as I have been playing[28 years] and I break very few 3rd strings..... bob
Bill Hankey
Member

From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

posted 25 February 2004 03:46 AM     profile     

Consider the sharp right angle at the apex of the changer. The constant flexing is the real culprit, combined with the massive leverage created at the changer finger. I developed the "LUCKY 7" to bring the basic reason for frequent breakages, to a screeching halt. The "LUCKY 7" reduces the bending to a minimum, while its purpose is two-fold, offering a shock absorber effect. The same principle effect is much like an earlier model automobile, with worn shock absorbers. Thousands of leaf springs have snapped, when the repairs are delayed. The two are problems closely related.

Bill H.

Jerry Roller
Member

From: Van Buren, Arkansas USA

posted 25 February 2004 09:11 AM     profile     
Chris, if the string is breaking at the changer you are tuning it sharp of (440) standard pitch "A" or you have a bad or mis-sized batch of strings. No other reason is remotely likely. If it is breaking the strings at the key then you already have the answer. Put more string on the key.
Jerry
Pat Dawson
Member

From: Chesapeake Beach, Maryland, USA

posted 25 February 2004 10:30 AM     profile     
I stopped breaking the .011 when I put enough wraps on it to get away from the hole that you put the string through on the tuning key post. It seems very sharp there. I,like you, was breaking a couple of .011 strings sometimes before I even got them up to pitch. Is that maddening, or what?
C Dixon
Member

From: Duluth, GA USA

posted 25 February 2004 10:41 AM     profile     
dittos Jerry Roller
Ray Minich
Member

From: Limestone, New York, USA

posted 25 February 2004 12:07 PM     profile     
When it gets below 50 degrees in my attic where my studio is I quit trying to play the steel until it warms up. One nite when it was cold I went thru four 0.011 3rd strings in row (in the space of a half hour) when I realized it was the cold that was causing the problem.
Billy Murdoch
Member

From: Glasgow, Scotland, U.K.

posted 25 February 2004 12:37 PM     profile     
I suffered a lot of 3rd string breakage a few years ago,in fact every time I wound the new on and got close to pitch I just tensed up and the SOB always broke.
I had a good look at the area around the hole in the tuning peg(using a magnifying glass)and I found it to be quite uneven and sharp.After a little careful dressing using a smooth emery cloth the problem was resolved.
I still break 3rds,but at an acceptable rate.
Chris Erbacher
Member

From: Sausalito, California, USA

posted 25 February 2004 03:27 PM     profile     
most of them are breaking at the middle of the string, which is why i'm baffled, and, i am just trying to get it to standard 440. one reason i'm so baffled is because my Zb doesn't break the 3 as much as this, i mean, one of the strings i only had on there for a night, then it broke. i think it may be the type of strings because the ernie ball type seem to last longer, and rarely break when tuning. i'm crossing my fingers that this is what it is. i checked the changer and peg for burrs and nothing there, so time will tell, but it is pretty annoying. maybe i'll change to a size .10. thanks for all the help here, this place is great.

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