It then gives the example in the key of C
(which is CDEFGAB) with the mixolydian scale being GABCDEF. However it then says that this is the G mixolydian - surely it should be the C mixolydian?

C D E F G A B (1 2 3 4 5 6 7)

Now, start on G

G A B C D E F

That's a mixolydian mode. Each scale has 7 modes, and it is when you start and end on a note OTHER than the root of the parent scale.

This mode is used on a G7 chord, which is the V chord of G. You now hear G as the "1" against the G7 chord.

This chemistry happens in all keys. So, when you need a mixolydian (which from the root of the mode is 1 2 3 4 5 6 b7), you can derive it from the parent major scale (which is a 5th below the root of the mixolydian scale) OR think of it as a "parallel scale" from G- which would be G major with a b7 instead of 7.

For C7 it would be spelled C D E F G A Bb. A#, although "technically" the same pitch, the spelling A# indicates a raised 6th, when the 6th is A. Since the 6th is in the scale, we call the pitch Bb as it indicates a b7- otherwise it would be 1 2 3 4 5 6 #6.

If the chord in the background remains C, it'll just sound like a C scale- you really need the chord to define the sound of the mode. For example, if you emphasize the E note:

E F G A B C D

and play that row of notes against Em, it sounds Spanish- that's the mood (MODE). Now, change the chord to C and play the exact lines and viola-back to "winkietown". So the chords and modes go hand in hand.

In fact, if you noodle all day on a C scale, and the chords from the scale are played in the background, (c, Dm, Em, F, G , Am, Bo) say like this:

C G/ Am Em/ F C/ Dm G

Every time a chord sounds, you are hearing the C scale as a mode based on the chord of the moment. So you don't have to think "mixolydian to aeolian" or shift your thinking whatsoever, because all those modes are contained in the C scale. The chords supply the "new root", because your ear hears the notes in relation to the chord. Up from the bottom!

Chord/melody relationship- that's the ticket. Each note has an identifiable "function" against each chord. There are only so many combinations, so it is more finite than it may seem. A big percentage of melody notes are actually chord tones (of the chord of the moment), meaning the 1,3,5 of the chord.

Each mode has a Greek name which makes it seem like jargon, but it's just a name, you don't need to know them but they are convienent. You can call 'em "third mode of the major scale" instead of "Phrygian"... To learn the sounds, try running up and down the C scale from the root of each chord (for Dm, D E F G A B C etc.) If you care to study them, you'll find what makes each unique is as David said, the intervals:

1. Major (IONIAN) 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 CDEFGAB C chord
2. Dorian 1 2 b3 4 5 6 b7 DEFGABC Dm chord
3. Phrygian 1 b2 b3 4 5 b6 b7 EFGABCD Em chord
4. Lydian 1 2 3 #4 5 6 7 FGABCDE F chord
5. Mixolydian 1 2 3 4 5 6 b7 GABCDEF G chord (or G7)
6. Aeolian 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7 ABCDEFG Am chord
7. Locrian 1 b2 b3 4 b5 b6 b7 BCDEFGA B0 (diminished) chord

Notice that although the "note functions" change, the scale has not been touched- no sharps or flats- it's still all a C scale.

Even if you play only 3 chords all night, you are still using modes, whether you know it or not, so they are not just for music school nerds!

Clive, C mixolydian indicates C as the starting note- C D E F G A Bb- so it's "parent major scale" is F. Mixolydian is used with the V chord, and C or C7 is the V of the key of F.

7 notes to a scale, 7 chords to a key. The 1,4,5 are major; 2 3 6 minor, and 7 diminished. Each note of the scale has it's own chord and mode, all derived from the "parent major scale".

Apologies for any headaches. There is actually a logic to all this which is only really obvious once you cross the river!

[This message was edited by John McGann on 10 March 2004 at 04:49 AM.]

The notes G A B C D E F is equal to Gmixolydian because of the interval between the notes.

As stated in previous post Cmixolydian would have a Bb note instead of the B note

mixolydian formula (derived from starting on the 5th note of a major scale(ionian))
1 - 2 - 3 4 - 5 - 6 b7  
G - A - B C - D - E F 

The reason this is not a C mixolydian.
As stated in previous post Cmixolydian would have a Bb note instead of the B note

When one harmonize the scale (G mixolydian)one will find that below the G chord is a F chord and above the G chord is an Am chord.

This scale (mixolydian) works well over dom7th chord so if there is a G7 one can play out of the A+F pos at 6th fret and use all the strings 10 8 6 5 4 3. Since we now know that the scale has a F chord below one can slide back to 4th fret and still use the same strings w the A+F engaged. And since we also know there is an Am chord above one can slide up to 8th fret and use the same strings w only A pedal pressed.

Not neccesary a speed picking scale but it works very well over dom7th chords.

Try slidin in/out/between the positions at fret 4, 6 & 8 pickin different string while having a G7 in the background and let us know how it sounds.

B.Erlandsen

G mixolydian harmonized as triads (3note voicing Root,3rd & 5th)
G7 Am Bdim Cmaj Dm Em Fmaj G7

example
G7 positions for soloing out of mixolydian
6th fret A+F
4th fret A+F
3rd fret A pedal
1st fret A pedal

F mixolydian harmonized as triads (3note voicing Root,3rd & 5th)
F7 Gm Adim Bbmaj Cm Dm Ebmaj F7

example
F7 positions for soloing out of mixolydian
6th fret A pedal
4th fret A+F
2nd fret A+F
1st fret A pedal

C mixolydian harmonized as triads (3note voicing Root,3rd & 5th)
C7 Dm Edim Fmaj Gm Am Bbmaj C7

example
C7 positions for soloing out of mixolydian
4th fret A+F
6th fret Apedal
8th fret Apedal
9th fret A+F
11th fret A+F

If you compare the different positions for the C7 F7 and G7 you'll see that they share some of the same positions and some are w the F-lever and some are w/out.

One could either see this as soloing out of the mixolydian mode for each chord
C mixolydian for the C7
F mixolydian for the F7
G mixolydian for the G7

Or one could see everything from the perspective of the key of the song (in this case C)

C dorian for the F7
C mixolydian for the C7
C major scale (Ionian) for the G7

C dorian      C - D Eb- F - G - A Bb- C over F7
C mixolydian  C - D - E F - G - A Bb- C over C7
C ionian      C - D - E F - G - A - B C over G7
 

Things are only confusing in the beginning. Everythings makes sense after a while...... hopefully

Bengt Erlandsen

[This message was edited by Bengt Erlandsen on 10 March 2004 at 06:47 AM.]

Yes, there are "modal" tunes like So What (Miles Davis) based on the D dorian mode. The notes of C major scale played over a Dm vamp. Goes up a 1/2 step for the bridge.

(quote)But the idea of changing modes with each chord...I'm not sure we are always doing that, except in a very technical sense. (unquote)

If you run up and down the C scale with the chords from the key shifting as in the above post, you will be playing in and out of the various modes. It's the same SCALE, the chords define the MOOD or mode. look at it like this- say you come up with a seductive, Spanish sounding melody with the Em chord in the background. Switch the chord to f and the solo's "emotion" totally changes. The chords rule the MOOD or mode. Your melody note choices don't change to "fit the mode"- if you are playing a major scale, you are playing ALL 7 MODES at once! They are intermingled and interchangeable.

(quote) Furthermore, there are more than one type of chord for each degree of the scale. (unquote)

Not in strictly major scale "diatonic" (diatonic=strictly derived from the major scale) harmony. If you use that mode of thought as a starting point, you will see there are "non-diatonic" chords. In C, a D chord doesn't exist, because there is no F# in the scale. However, if you alter the scale to add the F#, you ca build the chord D F# A and fill in the rest of the notes D E F# G A B C- A D mixolydian mode, or the key of G major.

(quote) The II major chord is used about as much as the II minor chord. Likewise the III major. What mode do they fit? (unquote)

Those chords are from outside the key, so they can be treated with their own parent major scales, but often there is a compromise to blend the harmony with the original key- for example on a I to II major, the II major probably sounds better with a b7 rather than natural 7- because the natural 7 of C# is rather foreign to the "home base" key of C. (i.e. A Waiter Survive would go from a C scale on C to a D7 mixo scale D E F# G A B C).

PLUS, this D (or D7) can be seen as the V chord OF the V chord of C, which is G. In other words, it is very common for chords foreign to the key (like a D chord in the key of C) to function as a V chord resolving to another chord. How about Sweet Georgia Brown, key of G: E7/A7/D7/G. Working backwards from G, the D is a V, the A is the V of V, and the E is the V of V of V. Ain't that somethin'?

(quote) : And what about 6th chords, augmenteds, and other more complicated chords? I seem to get further thinking of chords than of modes. And what about other scales, such as the pentatonic blues scale. I suppose they have modes too. Are there names for them?Inquiring minds need to know. (unquote)

Augmented chords can take a whole tone scale (G augmented G A B C# D# F) and there are other choices- as far as extended chords, if you really want to know, you can find good jazz theory books that can probably explain it better than I can- often called "chord scales". www.jajazz.com

Basically, every chord has it's chord tones, arpeggios. How you fill in the rest of the notes has to do with context-how does that chord function- if it's a minor and functions as a III chord, it gets a different mode than if it's a VI chord.

The seventh chords (major 7, dom 7, minor 7, minor 7b5, diminshed 7) are all treated contextually as well. Each can be extended into higher chord tones as well...it's a study that would be beyond my stamina for typing. Do you need to know all this to be a player? Of course not! But it IS a very handy system for organizing sounds in a way that you can access time and time again. It is also the standard lingo of jazz musicians, FWIW.

[This message was edited by John McGann on 10 March 2004 at 07:52 AM.]

The classic cycle of fifths progressions in swing and country are progressions of seventh chords that proceed to another seventh chord a fifth below (or 4th above), such as Right or Wrong, which in G starts out E7 A7 D7 G. You play E mixo, A mixo, and D mixo. D mixo has the same notes as the key of G of course.

As a blues sound, we play the mixo just for the jangly sound, or to match the 7th chords and other higher extensions, that are being played as the chords to the progression. In Right or Wrong, for example, you might play the G mixo over the G chord for the color, rather than the function.

I think in these contexts, however,it should be called the dominant scale, and mixolydian should be reserved for its true modal use, like Salt River and Old Joe Clark.

[This message was edited by Leon Grizzard on 10 March 2004 at 07:44 PM.]

Give each chord 2-4 measures so you have time to play the scale notes smoothly and completely 2 times before the chord changes.

You always play the same note scale, but the scale it is super-imposed on different chords.
Then you hear the differences and it makes sense.

I have a G on top of my C6 and between that and P6 I can get the whole G Myx over C scale really easily in the top register.
Also with the chords faster I can get great 2 voice groups singing over those changes.

I also have a minor and Dom7 lever combination.

Drop the 3rds LKL and raise the 6th RKR and this gives me another set of positions for playing the same scale or 3 note groupings for this chord sequence.

Here’s about the most basic explanation I can come up with:

Each mode is a different “starting place” in the major scale. There are 7 modes of the major scale, each one having a Greek name.

This is a C Scale:

C      D      E  F      G      A      B  C

Now play this C scale (SAME NOTES) starting on 2nd interval (D). Play from D up to the next D:

         D      E  F      G      A      B  C      D

The 3rd mode of the major scale is called Phrygian:

Here is a normal C Scale:

C      D      E  F      G      A      B  C

               E  F      G      A      B  C      D      E

There’s a lot more to say about this, but this topic gets really confusing really fast if you're trying to learn from text only, without the aid of a teacher to demonstrate the sounds. Best of luck with it.

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[This message was edited by Doug Beaumier on 11 March 2004 at 12:35 AM.]