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Author
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Topic: Pull rod diameter
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Steve English
Member From: Tucson, Arizona
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posted 11 March 2004 12:20 PM
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Does anyone know the diameter of the older MSA pull rods? Please, no "I thinks" or "my guess is.." Also I need to know the thread size for the tuning nut. The reason I ask is that I am trying to thread a 1/8" steel rod with a 4-40 die and not having much luck. This was my guess on sizes.....Thanx for any input. |
Jim Eaton
Member From: Santa Susana, Ca
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posted 11 March 2004 12:46 PM
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Great Question!!! I need to know the same info so I can order some new tuning nuts for an older MAS myself. How about it guys, we want the "straight skinny" on this one!
JE:-)> |
Jeff A. Smith
Member From: Angola,Ind. U.S.A.
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posted 11 March 2004 12:46 PM
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I just had one measured from my old MSA Classic, so that I could have another one machined. The machine shop measured the thread as a 5/40, which I believe matches with most of what I found searching around here. The diameter was 1/8".The machine shop only had 304 grade stainless readily available, so that's what we went with. I understand that if you want to be able to thread the rod by hand, it's better to go with 303, a hardness which is still adequate. |
Ray Minich
Member From: Limestone, New York, USA
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posted 11 March 2004 01:39 PM
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Yer gonna have one heck of a time puttin' 4-40 on a 1/8 rod. (At least that's been my fumble fingered experience with this threading die and rod...).The major diameter for external 4-40 thd is 0.106-0.112", and the minor dia. is about .081. Your threading die will have to hog 0.020" off the 1/8 rod's 0.125" OD. That's a lot to ask from that little threading die. Why don't you try 5-40 on the 1/8" rod? Major Dia. is 0.119-.125" and minor is 0.094" Major dia. is a lot closer to the .125 dia of the raw stock. Or try 7/64 in dia rod for 4-40. It's 0.1093" OD is closer to the major dia. for the 4-40 threading die. Check out the webpage http://www.protech-dmfg.com/SharedThreadsMain.htm for external thread info. Go to "External 0-80 thru 1/4"[This message was edited by Ray Minich on 11 March 2004 at 01:40 PM.] You can order the rod stock from McMaster Carr, and it's really not expensive at all.[This message was edited by Ray Minich on 11 March 2004 at 01:42 PM.] The reason I know is that I just today got in my brand spankin' new 4-40, 5-40, 5-44, and 6-40 threading dies and holder handle.[This message was edited by Ray Minich on 11 March 2004 at 01:45 PM.] [This message was edited by Ray Minich on 11 March 2004 at 02:13 PM.] |
Donny Hinson
Member From: Balto., Md. U.S.A.
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posted 11 March 2004 01:54 PM
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The old MSA's (and the new ones, as well) are 5-40, as the pull rods measured .125, or 1/8 inch. Stainless steel (303) is preferred, but just about any kind of stainless, mild steel (or even brass) would work. The "303" is pretty workable with hand tools. |
C Dixon
Member From: Duluth, GA USA
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posted 11 March 2004 02:50 PM
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You guys are correct as usual. Ron Lashley Sr told me the reason he went to 7/64" pull rods on the LeGrande was so they could use the more popular 4-40 thread rather than have to use a 5-40 cutter. Also, a machine shop CAN cut a 4-40 thread on a 1/8" rod, but most I believe will try and talk you out of it. Now, I have a question. Where in the plupefect hallelujah can one purchase 7/64" rod stock say in 36" lengths; other than having to buy them from Emmons? I have been trying for several years and totally struck out. Welding shops look at me and say "HUH?" Has ANY one found a place where you can readily purchase raw 7/64" rod stock that does not insist on a minimum order in the 100's of dollars? Thanks, carl |
Steve English
Member From: Tucson, Arizona
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posted 11 March 2004 03:18 PM
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Thanks for all the help! I'm off to find a 5-40 die. Ya'll saved me a little fustration!
Steve------------------
I don't need anger management.....I need all those people to quit making me mad! |
Bill Ford
Member From: Graniteville SC Aiken
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posted 11 March 2004 05:28 PM
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Carl,Steve
If you are using the setcollar type bellcrank aka older MSA and Marlen,you can use 3/32" welding rods and can be purchased "by the pound" at a welding supply.I have that size using 4-40 die with Geo-L 4-40 nylon tuners with no problem. Also have used 6-32 on 1/8" alum. with Geo-L 1/8 tuners with no problem. If all else fails go to McMaster.com,they have a selection like no other.. Steve, The MSA that I had used 1/8",and they used 6-32....It was a "first generation" with the crossbar instead of bellcranks.
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Bill Ford[This message was edited by Bill Ford on 11 March 2004 at 05:35 PM.]
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Ray Minich
Member From: Limestone, New York, USA
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posted 11 March 2004 06:38 PM
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McMaster Carr has 316L wire 0.102" dia. (10 gage AWG wire), 1 pound coil, approx 36 ft, for $$25.13.The unknowns are hardness and straightenability. Next order we place to them I'll get a 1 pound package and let y'all know if it works out. |
Al Marcus
Member From: Cedar Springs,MI USA
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posted 11 March 2004 08:54 PM
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I got #5356 Aluminum 1/8 rods at a welding supply house by the Lb and got 30 36 inch ones for $11.00. I was told if you use a light oil like kerosene, they would thread easy. I have them now on my S12 MSA Universal and they cut the weight over 2 1/2 lbs from the steel rods that were in it.I was told by a Machinist that there would be no problem with temperature changes, unles you went from 70 to 0. I also got some solid stock Aluminum from the lumber yard, for about $7. made 13 crossrods to put my bell cranks on. That saved a little over 2 lbs. I am also getting 4 aluminum legs which will save another 3 lbs. That takes off almost 8 lbs from my 39 lb MSA and brings it down to about 31 lbs, same weight as S12 Carter, GFI and Excel, Williams.....al  ------------------
My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/ [This message was edited by Al Marcus on 11 March 2004 at 08:59 PM.]
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Bill Ford
Member From: Graniteville SC Aiken
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posted 12 March 2004 06:04 AM
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Al,
Go to a mill supply house,or a store that sells drills/taps/dies,and get "Relton" A-9 alum cutting fluid in a green can...accept no substitute,best on the market. I worked in a machine shop for 25 yrs and found this to be the best.If you are a do it yourself,get the small size,it will last a long time.Ray,
I would go with the rods,I don't think you will be able to get the wire straight enough,also the waste using the rods is not enough to worry about.Also the "agw" grade may be too soft. BF ------------------
Bill Ford[This message was edited by Bill Ford on 12 March 2004 at 06:06 AM.] [This message was edited by Bill Ford on 12 March 2004 at 06:11 AM.] |
Kevin Sowder
Member From: Kearneysville, West Virginia, USA
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posted 12 March 2004 07:09 AM
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Does anyone know the pull rod size for a Carter SD10? I have to buy some new tuning nuts, but am really at a loss about the size needed. Thanks!
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Donny Hinson
Member From: Balto., Md. U.S.A.
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posted 12 March 2004 08:33 AM
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Carl...How much of that (7/64") rod are you looking for? |
Ray Minich
Member From: Limestone, New York, USA
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posted 12 March 2004 08:41 AM
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Yep, I need a good cuttin' fluid. That 1/8 in. 304 (actually 0.126) stock I just got from McMaster Carr has turned out to be more miserable that I thought it would be to cut 5-40 on the end. 6-40 goes on nice & easy. I'll probably have to take the 4 jaw chuck off the lathe, put in the collet chuch, find the 1/8" collet and turn 0.005 off the end of the rod I want to thread, then put the 4 jaw back on the lathe so the lab manager don't get pi**ed and then hit the rod with the 5-40 die.Easy job gets difficult, News at eleven... How much is a 20 inch long rod from Emmons anyway?[This message was edited by Ray Minich on 12 March 2004 at 08:41 AM.] |
C Dixon
Member From: Duluth, GA USA
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posted 12 March 2004 08:46 AM
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Hi Donny,I am looking for about 10-12, 7/64" rods 3 feet long. My problem is trying to get rods that will not rust, and is easily machined. SS is too hard to thread with my equipment. I am not sure what the compostion is of the Emmons' stock rod. But I know it does not tarnish. I do NOT think it is SS. A friend from the forum has shown me a very clever way to groove and bend the rods like Emmons bends them; but much faster and easier. I can buy rods cut to length and machined from Emmons (IF they will sell them to me  ) but they are 5 dollars each (I think) and I need 64 of them! Buying the raw stock and machining them myself would save considerably I am hoping. Thanks, carl |
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