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Livin' in the Past and the Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning.

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Darvin Willhoite
Riva Ridge Recording

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84 SKH Emmons Legrand D10
session 400'rd Steelin for my Lord.

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Steelin' away in the ozarks and life,
Scott
www.scottyhenderson.com

So even though there are some who will always have one or both on the right knee, it does appear there is a standard emerging. And that is both on the left knee.

In fact I am told by more than one manufacturer, "if they don't tell us, the following is what we ship":

    A  B  C   LKL  LKR    RKL  RKR
F#                         G
D#                             D/C#
G#     A
E         F#   F    Eb
B   C#    C#      
G#     A*                  F# 
F#
E              F    Eb
D                               C#          
B   C#
*splits with the F# on RKL      

While 3 X 4 (E9th) has been the standard for many years now, 4 X 5 is fast emerging as the standard. Where the 4th pedal has the PF changes and the 5th knee lever lowers the B's to Bb.

In addition a number of players are sacrificing the G on LKR for a G# and some are going one step further by raising the 2nd string to an E on this lever. I predict both of these WILL be standard in the not too distant future.

Finally, if you locate the raising and lowering of the E's on different knees, you reduce the amount of possible combinations. But the offset to this is, you also remove the smoothest transition possiblity, IE, going from one to the other.

That battle may become even more frustrating as our beloved instrument moves into ever more towards the standard era. Make no mistake about it, there is a standard evolving fast. Again there will be a few who do not conform. But the standard non the less is emerging quickly. I never thought I would see it, but I can assure you it is coming.

For an absolute standard

carl

[This message was edited by C Dixon on 05 August 2004 at 09:43 AM.]

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Fessy S-12U, Future MSA Millennium S-12U, Stereo Steel

I liked this plenty and considered that this would be my standard, until this thread popped up back then ( it does pop up a few times/year) and BE chimed in with intense logic. ( I hate it when that happens)

The point made by BE and many others is that you want to have as many changes as possible on 1 knee so as to not conflict with other changes that may be available using the other knee. I think Buddy referred to it as cancelling out the second knee unnecesarily.

Point..LKL E raise along with the Bb lever LKV and and A Pedal..all done with 1 knee and left foot and going in the same left sort of direction.

This doesn't mean it is the absolute correct placement of changes on Knee levers but what it does mean is that other options are available.

I'm thinking the reason the emerging standard has them both on the left side is precisely for leaving the extended options available for the right knee.

and then, who would argue with BE on this subject ? certainly not me..I changed the E's over to the left side immediately because if Buddy ever came to my house to inspect my Steel I wanted a valid inspection sticker.

But then again I recall where PF had the E's split..and who would argue with Paul ? Certainly not me. So I guess if Paul were to come to my house to inspect my Steel I would have to split the E's once again to get a valid inspection sticker ! Gosh..I hope they both don't come the same day or at the same time !

I have also come to a "whacky logic" of thinking that my standard playing is done on the left side ( E's ,Bb and ABC+4 Peds) with my add-ons and "Outside" phrases on the right knee. This is the way my D10 Carter 9+8 is configured.

Yes it is true, I have separated my brain into two halfs..but when both added together still don't add up to a sum of 1 !

see ya in St. Louie'..
t

[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 06 August 2004 at 02:47 AM.]

A universal by nature tends to be a compromise somewhat. IE, there are some sarifices necessary in order to gain the "best of both necks" on a D-10.

One of those is the loss of the bottom B to Bb change (if you are using this change on your D-10). You can't do this on a Universal because that bottom Bb messes up the "6th" based style of playing.

There are others. Many sacrifce the standard D-10 4th pedal. That is why most U-12'rs only have 7 pedals standard. However that may not be a great loss since sooooo many are sacrifcing it now to gain that awesome PF pedal.

But the main reason for only 7 or fewer, is because of what you and David commented on. And that is, the need to "hold" the tuning in B6 (C6 on a D-10). Since this is mandatory on a universal, the question comes up, "where do I do it?"

Most remove the standard left knee E to Eb lower and place it on the right knee. Jeff Newman did this from day one. A number of other players do this as well.

The reason for this is of course, it frees up the left leg to span all those B6 pedals. But in the case of the Jimmy Day setup, it would be particularly cumbersome to have to hold LKL engaged while spanning all 7 or 8 or however many pedals.

So again, most U players opt' to have the lowering of the E's on the right knee. For whatever its worth, THIS is the reason I would not go universal for close to 40 yrs! Even though I always felt the U WAS the ultimate PSG. My combinations absolutely require that the E's be lowered on LKR.

It was not until one night I discovered a way to do with this setup, and still be able to be just as comfortable playing a universal as my D-10. I only need 6 pedals on the floor.

I thank Jesus for this blessing. As it turns out, I would never wish to go back to a D-10. But if I had not found a way to keep LKR lowering the E's as above, I would not play a universal.

carl

I play U12. I had both on RK on my S10, and for a short while on the U12. Opposite knees is MUCH better. You can go from Eb to F in one smooth transition (I now use that a lot), rather than the intermittent Eb-E-F that happens when both changes are on one knee.

[This message was edited by Tom Gorr on 06 August 2004 at 09:19 AM.]

However, as I stated above my minimum number of combinations and lay out of pedals require that LKL raise the E's and LKR lowers them.

Thankfully I have half of the best of both worlds. What do you mean carl? Ok, As some of you know I relocated pedal 6 to RKR. And as you may know on a universal one of the changes on this pedal raises the lowered E to Eb back up to E when the E's are being held in B6.

However, IF I am not lowering the E's, this RKR raises the E's to F. So even though I raise and lower both E's on the left knee, I still have an additional E to F on the right knee on string 4. While I don't have it on string 8, It sho is nice to have that smooth transition on the 4th string.

The setup is below. If ya study it, you will see it:

                      LKL           RKR
    A  B  5  7  8  LKL   LKV LKR RKL   RKR
                                       (6)
F#        F*                      G#
D#              E*     D          E  C#
G#     A
E                   F         Eb        F*
B   C#       C#           Bb*
G#     A     A#                   F#*
F#        F
E                   F         Eb        D
B   C#          C      D             C#
G#     A               B          F#*
E         F     D#  F
B         C#    G#  C#               A

* splits