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Author
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Topic: half-stop explanation
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Marian Jerrell
Member From: Strasburg, PA, USA
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posted 05 October 2004 12:01 PM
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I've been working with my Derby S-10 in E-9th standard tuning but still am confused about the "half stop" that I hear and read about so much.Could someone explain in easy-to-understand non-technical terms what it is, on what string, it's purpose, is it necessary,if so how it works, etc. Anyhing to throw some light on the subject would be a big help. Thanks in advance!!
Marian Jerrell,
Strasburg, Pa. ------------------
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Ray Minich
Member From: Limestone, New York, USA
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posted 05 October 2004 01:09 PM
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Marian, one form of half stop is a nifty little gadget you add to the PSG underbelly, that lets you feel an intermediate position in a knee lever. For example, the 2nd string is tuned normally D#. You can use a KL to lower it to D, then further to C#. A half stop is a spring loaded "resistance" mechanism that lets you know by a sudden increase in lever resistance, that you've lowered to D, but with further "push" you can then also further complete the lower to C#.Sometimes this "halfstop" effect is accomplished without the aid of an extra mechanism, but just by the timing of the pulls when doing a multistring change. In one of the issues of an older Steel Guitar magazine I think it was Winnie Winston that wrote up how to make one. Hafta find the artice, think it was in two parts.[This message was edited by Ray Minich on 05 October 2004 at 03:20 PM.] |
Allan Thompson
Member From: Scotland.
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posted 06 October 2004 04:03 AM
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Of all the guitars i`ve sat behind and there`s been a few, the only ones that have had real possitive half stops on the second strings were Emmons Push Pull`s.
Unfortunately using the old mechanism stops you raising the second string but as i don`t use this change it has never bothered me.
You would think with all the great guitar builders of today someone would come up with a really good half stop on all pull guitars. |
Jim Dunaway
Member From: Seaford, Virginia, USA
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posted 06 October 2004 06:10 AM
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Marion, I have the Winnie Winston article mentioned above, I'll be glad to fax it to you.Jimmyd |
Erv Niehaus
Member From: Litchfield, MN, USA
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posted 06 October 2004 07:09 AM
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I don't understand your problem with the 1/2 stops on all pull guitars. If you look at the mechanism, there is a spring that you can stiffen up if the 1/2 stop isn't distinct enough. I have used the 1/2 stop on the 2nd string for years and now I am going to try it on the A pedal to get a more positive "C".
Erv |
Mark Herrick
Member From: Los Angeles, CA
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posted 06 October 2004 12:34 PM
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Maybe someone could post that Winnie Winston article here on the Forum? With Winnie's permission, of course...------------------
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Stephen Gambrell
Member From: Ware Shoals, South Carolina, USA
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posted 06 October 2004 05:30 PM
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The half stop on the Carters feels like another lever, almost! GREAT job, Bud and John.
Can I have a guitar now????? |
Winnie Winston
Member From: Tawa, Wellington, NZ
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posted 06 October 2004 08:10 PM
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It depends where the article was.
If it was in the PSGA newsletter, you'd have to ask Bob Maickel.
If it was in the old Steel Guitarist Magazine, I guess it would be OK with Tom Bradshaw...
It's OK with me.JW |
Paddy Long
Member From: Christchurch, New Zealand
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posted 07 October 2004 12:58 PM
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My MCI has a separate pull rod in what would be where an 11th string might be -- and you tune the "D" note there (I think the Carters and GFI's do this too). This makes for a pretty positive feel stop and it's real easy to tune.
On the other hand my new Zum has the feel stop tied to the 9th string D, you push the lever until the 2nd string gets to the D note, then both the 2nd and 9th string lower to C#. The feel stop is tuned with a cap screw behind the bridge rollers in the 9th string position. This also has a very positive feel and is easily tuned.
I think the old method (ShoBud type) as explained above with the spring loaded collar under the guitar, was not that great and always felt a bit like doing a half pedal note --- it was more about feel than having anything solid to stop against. Perhaps thats where the saying "feel stop" comes from - it wasn't particularly accurate. |
Marian Jerrell
Member From: Strasburg, PA, USA
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posted 08 October 2004 09:27 AM
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Hello Everyone,
Want to thank everyone who responded to my question. I now am much better informed about a half-stop on a guitar. Mine does not have one. 
Regards, Marian Jerrell |
Jerry Overstreet
Member From: Louisville Ky
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posted 08 October 2004 01:00 PM
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Marian, a positive, adjustable, field installed, completely tunable 1/2 stop assembly is available for your guitar at the Derby Steel factory if you should ever decide you would like to have one. This type mechanism can be used on most any string that you want to lower or raise to 2 different notes. I use it on the C neck to raise the 4th string to A#/ B. |
Bobby Lee
Sysop From: Cloverdale, North California, USA
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posted 08 October 2004 04:33 PM
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I've never found a half-stop that I could feel well enough. I often need that D note to be very solid in the heat of live performance. I can feel it at home in my living room, but I tend to push pretty hard when I'm on stage.
I've tried it every time I bought a new guitar (except for my most recent one), and I always had to scrap it. |
Len Amaral
Member From: Rehoboth,MA 02769
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posted 08 October 2004 07:45 PM
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I agree with bOb as I have never had a half stop that I felt was a positive stop. I just tune my second string D# to C# with the LKL and listen for the D rather than try and feel the half stop. A bit tricky but it works for me. |
Terry Bethel
Member From: Hollister,Mo 65672 USA
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posted 08 October 2004 10:06 PM
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The half stop that you are talking about, I always had a problem with until I went to Jimmie Crawford's house one day and played his guitar. He had his second string tuned to "D" and raised it a half and lowered it a half.
On the second string lower he also lowered the sixth a whole tone. On the second string raise he also lowered the ninth string a half tone.
I liked it so well I took my guitar to Sho-Bud the next day and had it changed over and have been using it that way since. (Telling my age aren't I) It gives you some really great changes without having to find that D#$@ Half stop.
Terry Bethel
Bethel Steel Guitars
OzarkSGA
Paul Harris ShowOtherwise I ain't doin' much. |
Archie Nicol
Member From: Ayrshire, Scotland
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posted 09 October 2004 03:36 AM
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Hi, Terry.
Just dug out "A Manual Of Style" from 1980.
Never mind the tunings, what about the hairstyles?
Cheers, Arch. |
Terry Bethel
Member From: Hollister,Mo 65672 USA
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posted 09 October 2004 08:29 AM
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Archie,
About the hairstyles??? Well??
But the tunings were cool!!!!!
Terry Bethel |
Archie Nicol
Member From: Ayrshire, Scotland
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posted 09 October 2004 04:34 PM
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Sorry, Terry.
I am not fit to polish your picks.
I cannot go on!
The cheek of me, to insult such a fantastic player. I humbly apologise.
Yours, In Awe!
Arch. |
Terry Bethel
Member From: Hollister,Mo 65672 USA
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posted 09 October 2004 10:25 PM
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Archie,
No need for an apology, you didn't say anything that I haven't heard before.
We did have some crazy hairstyles back then.
Terry |
Bobby Lee
Sysop From: Cloverdale, North California, USA
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posted 10 October 2004 10:29 AM
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quote:
The half stop that you are talking about, I always had a problem with until I went to Jimmie Crawford's house one day and played his guitar. He had his second string tuned to "D" and raised it a half and lowered it a half.
I played that way for about 15 years. Then I sat down and did an analysis of what scale notes are needed from the 2nd string at each position. It turns out that you need the D# about twice as often as you need the D. That sold me on the wisdom of the standard E9th!
I still use two levers on that string, though. One to get the solid D, and the other to get the C#.(Note: I'm also not qualified to polish Terry's picks, or Jimmie's for that matter. Get Terry's CD to hear how he uses that second string.) ------------------
 Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra SD-12 (Ext E9), Williams D-12 Crossover, Sierra S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, C6, A6)[This message was edited by Bobby Lee on 10 October 2004 at 10:36 AM.] |
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