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Author
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Topic: Hard Rock or Birdseye?
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Ron Steenwijk
Member From: Greensburg,PA
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posted 15 March 2005 03:28 AM
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What would be better to build a beautifull steel guitar body.Hardrock maple or Birdseye maple?
Or the body out of hardrock maple and the neck out of birdseye?Or vice versa?
Give me your ideas please.thanks. Ron ------------------
Nikaro SD10 4x6 ,Nikaro SD10 4x5,2 Peavey Ultratube 112 European Steel Guitar Forum
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jim milewski
Member From: stowe, vermont
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posted 15 March 2005 03:37 AM
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having worked in the woods in VT logging, there as basically two species of maple here, soft and rock (hard) maple, the hard is the tree sap for sugaring comes from. I was under the impression that birdseye is rock maple |
David Mason
Member From: Cambridge, MD, USA
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posted 15 March 2005 03:45 AM
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From Warmoth: "Birdseye is another type of figure found in hard maple. It shows best in flat sawn wood. There is a wide variety of size and shapes in the "eyes" to keep them interesting. There seems to be a recurring rumor that Birdseye maple is unstable and not suited to guitar necks. Having made tens of thousands of Birdseye necks, we can assure you that it is no different in stability than plain maple." http://www.warmoth.com/guitar/necks/
necks.cfm?fuseaction=guitar_neckwoods |
Mark Ardito
Member From: Chicago, IL, USA
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posted 15 March 2005 05:43 AM
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Birdseye Maple comes from "Rock Maple". There are really 2 different species of the Maple falily; Hard and Soft Maple. However, don't be fooled by the name...soft Maple is very close to "rock" Maple. Both would make excellent bodies for Steel Guitars. You may have heard the names "curly" or "quilted" Maple. These are figures in the grain that comes from soft Maple. Here are some pics...Here is "Curly Maple" or often called "Fiddle-Back Maple":
 Here is "Quilted Maple":
 Cheers!
Mark
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Sho~Bud Pro I, Fender D-8 (C6&E13) http://www.darkmagneto.com
http://www.arditotech.com
[This message was edited by Mark Ardito on 15 March 2005 at 05:44 AM.] [This message was edited by Mark Ardito on 15 March 2005 at 05:45 AM.]
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Mark Vinbury
Member From: N. Kingstown, Rhode Island, USA
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posted 15 March 2005 08:01 AM
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I agree with Mark.Here in New England, a lot of the "figured" maples we refer to as "curly,flamed,fiddleback,tiger,etc." are from the soft,sometimes called "swamp", maple tree.Most of the hard,"rock", maple I see is relativly featureless or some "birdseye".Both hard and soft maple seem suitable for steel guitar bodies.The Soft maple can sometimes have a grayish look so some care in selection is required for appearance.I find soft maple to be close to or maybe a little denser than poplar to work with,and only a little softer than "rock" hard maple. |
Morton Kellas
Member From: Chazy, NY, USA 12921
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posted 15 March 2005 12:17 PM
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In speaking with some of the top steel builders as well as some of the vendors that make their laquer cabinets for them, I can pass on this information. I was told that straight grain hard maple was best for sustaining tone. Many pictures of beautiful wood bodied guitars you see on the forum with a birdseye maple front are actually birdseye veneer laminated over straight grain maple. You would never know by looking at them.
I won't mention the vendors , but there are several, and they all seem to do it for tone reasons. Then again, I have heard some older solid birdseye steels that sound as good if not better than the newer ones.[This message was edited by Morton Kellas on 15 March 2005 at 12:18 PM.] |
T. C. Furlong
Member From: Vernon Hills, Illinois, USA
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posted 18 March 2005 05:45 AM
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Doesn't it seem that guitars that have been around for a long time, with "aged" wood, sound better? Maybe it's just hype or a justification for the higher prices for vintage instruments.There is a lot of talk in the six string guitar community about building new instruments from old wood . It might make sense to look for old wood that looks good to you. TC |
Bob Carlucci
Member From: Candor, New York, USA
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posted 18 March 2005 06:12 AM
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I was told by builders of steels and guitars, that highly figured maples are not the best sounding, and are probably best used as a veneer. I would not use a "soft" maple for a steel body,UNLESS it was a veneer going on body of hard rock maple... bob |
Joey Ace
Sysop From: Southern Ontario, Canada
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posted 18 March 2005 07:17 AM
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My custom Tele's neck is 10 years old, highly figured Birdseye, no problems.
Sorry for the drift... |
Ron Steenwijk
Member From: Greensburg,PA
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posted 18 March 2005 07:24 AM
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Bob.My Sho~Bud Professional was made out of Birdeseye and this steel had killer tone man.Thats why I asked this question.I think my new steel guitar will be Birdseye.This is the one that I want for my new D12/11.I am experimenting with "Trofidor" for the bellcranks.I will let you know what comes out. Ron ------------------
Nikaro SD10 4x6 ,Nikaro SD10 4x5,2 Peavey Ultratube 112 European Steel Guitar Forum
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Bob Carlucci
Member From: Candor, New York, USA
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posted 18 March 2005 07:32 AM
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Ronald.. I'm not sure if birdseye is considered highly figured,the way heavily flamed or quilted maple would be. I am not an expert,just going by what a well known builder told me. The clearer and harder the better. He felt the softer maple varieties were not well suited to pedal steel bodies... bob |
Cor Muizer Jr
Member From: The Netherlands/europe
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posted 18 March 2005 10:34 AM
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Bob your right.
but if you want a laquer finish you have to get yourself a great good looking piece of birdseye maple.
and for mica finish just hard rock maplecor  |
Joe Yednasty
Member From: Southwestern CT
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posted 20 March 2005 09:00 AM
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Check out Fender's Merle Haggard Telecaster, I'm pretty sure the neck is done with Birdseye maple and it looks great.------------------
"Eskimo" Joe Yednasty Emmons P/P S-10
Peavey Session 500 Ralph Mooney Fan |
Ron Steenwijk
Member From: Greensburg,PA
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posted 21 March 2005 07:42 AM
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Sorry guys for not responding.But my computer went down a while ago.Joey that's one nice looking tele.I love that birdseye.I am picking up some birdseye next week.The man that has it for sale told me that I could take my pick.He has a bunch of it.Almost all guitar builders over here that use Birdseye buy from him.So I think I am doing the right thing here.And if I don't like the sound I will build me another cabinet.Simple as that. Ron ------------------
Nikaro SD10 4x6 ,Nikaro SD10 4x5,2 Peavey Ultratube 112 European Steel Guitar Forum
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Per Berner
Member From: Skövde, Sweden
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posted 21 March 2005 07:57 AM
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Ron, is your source a private individual or a lumber company? Is it expensive?Despite 3/4 of Sweden being covered by forests, I can only find veneers from our local vendors. Really good looking solid birdseye maple in wide enough planks seem impossible to find, so a European source would be nice.
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´75 Emmons p/p D10 8+4, '96 Emmons Legrande II D10 8+5, ´76 Sho-Bud Pro III Custom SD10 4+5, Peavey Nashville 1000 |
Cor Muizer Jr
Member From: The Netherlands/europe
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posted 21 March 2005 08:55 AM
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hi there,
in Amsterdam the netherlands there is a big woodstore where al instrument builders pick up there piece(s) of wood such like guitar builders, violin's, harp and more.been there many times and you can spent a whole day to find what you need. cor |
Per Berner
Member From: Skövde, Sweden
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posted 21 March 2005 09:02 AM
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Cor, do you know if they have a web site?
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´75 Emmons p/p D10 8+4, '96 Emmons Legrande II D10 8+5, ´76 Sho-Bud Pro III Custom SD10 4+5, Peavey Nashville 1000 |
Ron Steenwijk
Member From: Greensburg,PA
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posted 21 March 2005 10:59 AM
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Per.You keep buying nice steel guitars huh.A nice P/P added to your collection I see.Congrats my friend.
About that birdseye.The guy I am talking about is not in Amsterdam.And they do have a website. http://www.af.nl
It's in dutch so I think you will need a translator Per.If you need some help then please mail me.
B.T.W.
I changed my e-mail adres so take note. Ron ------------------
Nikaro SD10 4x6 ,Nikaro SD10 4x5,2 Peavey Ultratube 112 European Steel Guitar Forum
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Bill Hatcher
Member From: Atlanta Ga. USA
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posted 21 March 2005 12:06 PM
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Built 30+ guitars so I have some experience in this wood lore.I would say that tonaly speaking if you take a straight grain piece of maple and a figured piece of maple that both have close to the same end grain structure, you will not have much difference in tone/sustain. Notice I said that you have to compare the end grain. The most important determining factor in sound from pieces of wood in the same family is the density of the wood. Hard maple and birdseye are in the same species of maple. You can take two pieces of no figure wood and if they have different density of growth rings, then they will have two different sounds. They could be from the same forest but maybe one tree was next to a water source and the other tree was up on the side of a mountain. They will have totally different density. Same is true with figured maple whether it be birdseye or curly. Anyone who makes a blanket statement that straight grain maple makes for a better sound than figured is just not taking everything into consideration. This is one of the reasons why you can line up 10 Teles or 10 ShoBuds that are identical in outward appearance and the trained ear can hear and also feel sonically the difference in the way they sound from guitar to guitar. No two pieces of wood are identical and this contributes to the individuality of each instrument. If your looking for sustain--look for tight growth rings. If you are looking for lightness in the weight of an instrument look for wide growth rings. Just my opinion from experience. |
Cor Muizer Jr
Member From: The Netherlands/europe
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posted 21 March 2005 12:06 PM
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per i will take a look for ya'h
i've been there many times but didn't know if they have a website.and Bill your statement is absolutly true
also the two same brands of steelguitars,same model,same color and so on
can sounds different but ofcourse only heard if you've have trained your ears. keep you informed cor Rains D10 8×5 RED[This message was edited by Cor Muizer Jr on 21 March 2005 at 01:06 PM.] |
Cor Muizer Jr
Member From: The Netherlands/europe
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posted 21 March 2005 12:09 PM
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hey Per i do a search and they have it but is also in dutch
www.fijnhout.nl
cor
Rains D10 8×5 RED |
Per Berner
Member From: Skövde, Sweden
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posted 21 March 2005 10:38 PM
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Thanks Ron and Cor, I will check these sites out.
I don't think the Dutch language will be a big problem; at least in writing it's not that dissimilar to neither Swedish nor German.
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´75 Emmons p/p D10 8+4, '96 Emmons Legrande II D10 8+5, ´76 Sho-Bud Pro III Custom SD10 4+5, Peavey Nashville 1000 |
Donald Dunlavey
Member From: Jonesboro, Georgia, USA
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posted 24 March 2005 06:26 AM
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I have built 35 guitars and have selected a lot of maple myself. Have always been concerned about tone and sustain. I will certainly second what Bill Hatcher said about tightness of grain and density. Also whether its slab cut, quarter sawn or cut on the fletch. Would also like to pose the question why I've not seen anyone use Brazilian wood necks on steels for added sustain, unless its just for cost purposes. My experience over the years of guitars has certainly shown me that Brazilian is superior in tone and sustain. This is what most all the manufactures used on fingerboards and bridges until about mid sixties. Craftsmanship is a given, but who's to say what really makes a guitar or steel for that matter have the magic of response when the sustain and tone are much greater, than another of the same model and wood. Most every Luthier I've know has been trying to figure that for a long time. A thought or two. blah blah blah. ------------------
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James Quackenbush
Member From: Pomona, New York, USA
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posted 02 April 2005 11:19 AM
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Donald,
From my understanding there is a ban on the use of Brazilian Rosewood as it was put on an endangered species list of sorts ... The only Brazilian that can be used is what's already in existance ....They may have lifted the ban, but I don't think that they have....I could be wrong...
This has driven the price of ANYTHING that is related to Brazilian Rosewood WAY up in price ......Jim |
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