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Author
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Topic: Harmonics on old strings
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Greg Vincent
Member From: Los Angeles, CA USA
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posted 19 April 2005 08:56 AM
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Hi gang,Why is it so much more difficult to play a harmonic on an old string than it is on a new string? Isn't a node a node? Do the nodes move out of position on an older string or something? -"Clunking" in L.A. |
John Knight
Member From: Alaska
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posted 19 April 2005 09:25 AM
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There are others at this forum that will be able to answer this question much better then I but here goes. It has to do with the life of the string. It loses its ability to vibrate. The shorter the string length the faster the vibration. When the string loses its ability to vibrate you lose harmonics as well as the livlyness of the string. |
Joey Ace
Sysop From: Southern Ontario, Canada
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posted 19 April 2005 10:14 AM
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Strings wear in an uneven way. The areas where you play the most have the most wear.New strings are uniform thru their lenght, worn strings are not. Here's a good essay on Musical String Harmonics: http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/~jw/strings.html |
David Mason
Member From: Cambridge, MD, USA
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posted 19 April 2005 10:50 AM
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And/or, old strings lose treble response for sure, and harmonics are high notes. In point of fact, aren't harmonics responsible for treble response? |
Roy Ayres
Member From: Starke, Florida, USA
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posted 19 April 2005 12:34 PM
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When a string or any other medium is stretched, compressed, twisted, or in any other way "distorted" from its original condition or shape, it's ability to return to its original condition is measured by a quantity known as its "modulus of elasticity". When the modulus of elasticity of a string is exceeded, the string no longer has the same characteristics that it had originally. When this occurs, the string's abiliy to vibrate in the various harmonic modes (i.e. to create nodes for the various harmonics.) is lost. When a new string is plucked, the string vibrates with a node at each end -- the bridge and the nut or bar defining the ends -- to produce the "fundamantal" tone. The new string will also vibrate with a node at its center, creating the first overtone or second harmonic. Additional nodes will be created, each being an overtone (or harmonic) of a hiugher order. Each time the string is plucked, the additional stretching causes it to lose a small part of its ability to retain overtones. The more overtones that are lost, the "deader" the string will sound.Solution: Invest in new strings. ------------------
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John Daugherty
Member From: Rolla, Missouri, USA
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posted 19 April 2005 12:58 PM
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WOW......Roy, that's a great explanation. Thanks. |
Donny Hinson
Member From: Balto., Md. U.S.A.
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posted 19 April 2005 07:41 PM
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Harmonics are only a fraction (in volume) compared to a normally-picked note. Dead strings have a significantly lower output, and therefore the volume difference is noticed more when playing harmonics. As Ray said, repeated/excessive stretching affects the string's resonance and harmonic content, but so does foreign matter on the strings (dirt, rust, corrosion), as well as the changing magnetic permeability. In short, when strings "go dead", it simply means that, for some reason (or many reasons), they don't sound they used to.  I've had some strings go quite dead in a few hours, and others (seemingly identical) last many, many weeks. Re: David's question... quote:
In point of fact, aren't harmonics responsible for treble response?
Not completely. Equalizition on the fundamental tones also enters into the equation, and is probably significant. Sound can be changed in a pure tone (like a sine wave) without adding to the original harmonic structure. [This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 19 April 2005 at 07:52 PM.] |
Jennings Ward
Member From: Edgewater, Florida, USA
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posted 19 April 2005 09:29 PM
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MAY I ADD IN A VERY ELEMENTARY WAY, WITHOUT HARMONICS, YOU HAVE NOISE, NOT TONE, A SINGLE FUNDIMENTAL FREQUENCY IS VERY IRRITATING, [ NOISE. OR RACKET ] WESTERN MUSIC, BY ITS VERY NATURE IS VERY " RICH " IN HARMONICS.... ANYTHING THAT DETRACTS FROM THE HARMONIC PROCESS, IS LESS PLEASING TO THE EAR, AND IS CLASSIFIED " NOISE " SOME PEOPLE ARE MORE SENSATIVE TO IT THAN OUTHERS, AND I BELIEVE IT IS CALLED TONE DEAFNESS, OR AUDIO DEFENCEY, POOR HEARING . PEOPLE THAT WORK ARROUND NOISEY AREAS , MACHINERY, ENGINES, HEAVY EQUIPMENT.ECT. ARE PRONE TO THIS PROBLEM.. SO PROTECT YOUR HEARING.....TURN IT DOWN.........JENNINGS------------------
EMMONS D10 10-10 profex 2 deltafex ne1000 pv1000, pv 31 bd eq, +
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Klaus Caprani
Member From: Copenhagen, Denmark
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posted 19 April 2005 10:41 PM
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Hi Greg!Actually the nodes ARE moving out of position as you mentioned yourself, though it's only a part of the problem. As somebody else stated the strings will take more wear on some places than others, and as a thinner string requires less tension to tune up to a given note than a thicker one, it almost explains itself where the tuning, relating to your frets, goes.
(Sorry for that long sentence). Ofcourse others have mentioned that the strings goes "dead" in several ways and that contributes further to the problem.
In theory your harmonics should still be there though, just not exactly where you're used to  ------------------
Klaus Caprani MCI RangeXpander S-10 3x4
www.klauscaprani.com
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