Usually a combination that requires an angled rod can also be accomlished without the angle. Example: my Sierra has rod pullers with 4 slots and 3 changer holes for raises. I could set up a pedal to go from hole A (the highest) to slot 4 and it would be a radical slant on the rod. I can get exactly the same leverage using puller slot 3 with changer hole B, or using puller slot 2 with changer hole C. (Yes, exactly the same - Sierras are designed that way!)

I tend to prefer the more parallel rod configurations.

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Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra SD-12 (Ext E9), Williams D-12 Crossover, Sierra S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, C6, A6)

[This message was edited by Bobby Lee on 07 May 2005 at 09:48 AM.]

When you say you get the same leverage, are you implying also that you get the same pedal travel?

on the Carter pedal steel guitar websiteyou'll find the "Steel Guitar Information Resource" which has a lot on invaluable tips, including a chapter on rodding. There is an article on "Rodding Theory", as well as standard rodding charts for E9, C6 and U12. You can use the blank rodding chart to write down your individual setup for later reference.

Rainer

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Remington D-10 8+7, Sierra Crown D-10 gearless 8+8, Sierra Session S-14 gearless 8+5, '77 Emmons D-10 8+4, '70 Emmons D-10 8+4, '69 Emmons S-10 6+5, Fender Artist D-10 8+4, '73 Sho~Bud LDG 3+4, Peavey Session 400 LTD, Peavey Vegas 400, Line 6 Variax 700

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So, what I'm saying is this: you get the same result (distance traveled and force required for the pull) whether you use A-4, B-3 or C-2

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B0b, unless the axle(s) of the changer fingers is(are) at the other end, your Sierra constitutes a violation of the laws of mechanics

baffled.....

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Changer: raise holes are rows A, B, & C. Row 'B' is easier to pull than row 'A', but it also requires more movement to move a string a given distance than does row 'A'.

Lower holes: 'E' is easier than 'D', but does not pull as quickly.

Bell crank: slot 1, that nearest the cross shaft, is the easiest but longest pull. As you move upwards, slots 2, 3 and 4 become progressively stiffer but quicker;

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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

The examples furnished earlier in this topic suggest to me that changes in the hole position in the changer in a downward direction would be equivalent to changes in the bell crank (puller) in an upward direction.

However, John Bechtel's experience indicates that changes in the bell crank (puller) positions are more dramatic than in the changer.

John also expresses a disliking for pull rods that cross at a changer.

So, to avoid the puller rods crossing , one should use somewhat parallel rodding.

Here is a perhaps extreme example of parallel rodding, using Sierra changer & puller identifications.

A - 1
B - 2
D - 3
E - 4

According to John's experience, A - 1 would be an easier (longer) raise than B - 2, all other things being equal.

Similarly, D - 3 would be an easier (longer) lower than E - 4, all other things being equal.

your description states the relation between changer hole position and bell crank position correctly, but your example is backwards.

changer end (raises):
A=closest to changer axle
B=middle hole
C=farthest from changer axle

bell crank:
1=closest to cross shaft
2
3
4=farthest from cross shaft

The easiest pull, requiring the longest travel is C/1.
The stiffest and shortest pull is A/4.

Other combinations fall in between.

The same goes for lowers. The Sierra only has a double lower capability: holes D and E.
E/1 = long and soft
D/4 = short and stiff

Rainer

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Remington D-10 8+7, Sierra Crown D-10 gearless 8+8, Sierra Session S-14 gearless 8+5, '77 Emmons D-10 8+4, '70 Emmons D-10 8+4, '69 Emmons S-10 6+5, Fender Artist D-10 8+4, '73 Sho~Bud LDG 3+4, Peavey Session 400 LTD, Peavey Vegas 400, Line 6 Variax 700

[This message was edited by Rainer Hackstaette on 02 August 2005 at 02:56 AM.]

I understand your examples. You are illustrating the extremes of easy versus stiff pulls. What I was trying to get to was along the lines of what John Bechtel is illustrating 2 messages up. He spoke of avoiding crossing the rods, and that was what my question was getting at. If you reread my question, I was looking at rodding that is somewhat parallel to the guitar body. I'm trying to understand the theory as it relates to these parallel setups.

Edited to add that the numbers are proportional to rod travel GIVEN a specific amount of stretching of the string, i.e. pitch change.

Hans

PS: For players of LeGrande and Excel guitars I'll extend the chart at no additional cost

[This message was edited by Hans Holzherr on 03 August 2005 at 06:39 AM.]

Now that makes sense. You've furnished a logical step-by-step procedure for going from a specific starting point, at the bell crank, to the next step, which is to juggle between best hole at the changer while avoiding or minimizing cross-overs.

Thank you. That is much better than my method of simply flipping things back and forth at both the bell crank and changer 'til everything feels good.

As you & John both pointed out, knowing that the bell crank makes the most significant change in travel stiffness certainly will help me in logically plotting out what steps to take in rodding.

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On hitting the return key the chart is being updated.

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