|
Author
|
Topic: Dobro bar vs. Standard
|
Frank Parish
Member From: Nashville,Tn. USA
|
posted 11 June 2005 04:00 AM
profile
I'm like most here and use the 7/8 ten string bullet nosed bar. Some use other sizes but for the most part I think I'm safe in saying most of use the bullet nosed standard bar. How many use a dobro type of bar like the old Stevens or maybe one of the newer Shubb bars with a half bullet type of front? I've got my step son started playing the PSG but he wants to use the dobro style bar because he seen Robert Randolph use it and thinks it'll be easier. I'm trying to explain to him why the round bullet nose bar is the choice of most steel players. I know this will no doubt come to a "whatever works for you" type of answer and I'm a believer in that as much as anyone but knowing the origin of the dobro bar and why I see it used by Sacred Steelers more than others came to mind. Am I mistaken about this? What is the origins of these different bars and how they wound up in these different styles of playing? Dan Tyack, Robert Randolph, any others out there reading this chime in please.[This message was edited by Frank Parish on 11 June 2005 at 04:07 AM.] |
David Mason
Member From: Cambridge, MD, USA
|
posted 11 June 2005 04:44 AM
profile
The old Hawaiian steel bars were a flat, rectangular piece of steel with a rounded edge, maybe 1/8"-3/16" thick. You see them on Ebay now and then. I have a friend in Minneapolis playing 30's music who loves them. The Stevens type are clearly an attempt to add weight for sustain and grippability to that, and the Shubb bar's nose is an attempt to make a Stevens bar that will glide onto adjacent strings. A lot of dobro players don't like a round nose - it's a disadvantage if you're pulling off one string while letting a higher string ring, for example. Of course you can always turn a Shubb around and use the square back end too. I just discovered that the Shubb SP-1 is much less cramp-provoking if I hold it with my middle finger curled back under - the ring and little fingers can still mute behind it. I must say, they are very accurate and fast bars in the right (left) hands. |
Marty Pollard
Member From: a confidential source
|
posted 11 June 2005 07:31 AM
profile
Mass matters. |
Mark van Allen
Member From: loganville, Ga. USA
|
posted 11 June 2005 09:08 AM
profile
The Players in the "Sacred" tradition seem to be very traditionally oriented, in terms of using the instruments and techniques of their predecessors. An important part of the approach for many seems to be lifting and moving, and even slamming the bar, fast moving single string lines with lots of expression and vibrato, and a wide ranging fast vibrato with a lot of attack. All of that would seem easier with a grooved bar (and mostly alien to "Nashville" steel technique). It's pretty apparent that with a little practice, we can play just about anything with just about any style bar- it's a matter of comfort and application. The mass does affect the tone and feel for sure. Someone wanting to explore a grooved bar might look into the Gary Swallows custom bars, any size and weight with various edges/ bullet noses etc. ------------------
Stop by the Steel Store at: www.markvanallen.com
|
Webb Kline
Member From: Bloomsburg, PA
|
posted 11 June 2005 10:14 AM
profile
I even use my 7/8ths bar when playing my Dobro for most applications. But, I also use a hollow glass slide bar sometimes on the Dobro and lap steel. Surpisingly, it has a nice tone for some songs, especially bluesier stuff. But, I never use anything but my 7/8ths on the psg. |
Frank Parish
Member From: Nashville,Tn. USA
|
posted 11 June 2005 10:17 AM
profile
I can agree with everything David is saying here. I use the Shubb bar S-P and turn it around to have the square end like the Stevens after learning just how much I needed it more than the bullet nose.
Mark,
You mentioned The Players playing in the "Sacred" tradition. I hadn't heard of this. I've got the DVD with Paul playing Coal Train Boogie. Is there another I've missed somewhere?
The purpose of this thread is to find out just how it came that the Stevens bar is so much a tradition in Dobro and Sacred steel playing. Are there any of us out here using the Stevens bar for traditional steel playing besides Don Helms?[This message was edited by Frank Parish on 11 June 2005 at 10:24 AM.] |
David Doggett
Member From: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA
|
posted 11 June 2005 11:59 AM
profile
I use a 7/8" double-bullet Twister for country and jazz. The doube-bullet glides smoother on and off the low strings of my S12U. But I also keep a Shubb-Pearse #2 (Stevens type with a half bullet) at my keyhead to switch to for blues and rock. It has a slightly thinner more slide-guitar like sound. I also like it for rockabilly, because it has more of a no-pedals sound. But mainly it is better for moving fast all over the neck and doing single string stuff, especially in the keys of E and A, the most common blues-rock keys.I use the same SP2 bar for Dobro. I actually find the half bullet easier to use for hammer ons, pull-offs, and single string stuff (the rounded end clears the strings on either side more easily and requires less accuracy in hitting the single string). I fell in love with this bar the minute I tried it on Dobro, and threw out all my old Stevens bars. I tried the SP1, but it was too low and cramped my hand. The SP2 is the same height as a Stevens. The older Sacred Steelers used round, flat-end Hawaiian bars, and some used bullets. Later players have gravitated to Stevens and various SP grooved bars. In particular, Chuck Cambell, Robert Randolph and others who play the fast blues-rock gospel styles, with the big 12 and 14 string rigs, all seem to use grooved bars. They are simply more maneuverable for this style of playing. In short, I like the heavier weight and thicker sound for country and jazz, but I like the thinner sound and greater maneuverability of a grooved bar for blues, rockabilly and rock. I have them both on my guitar at all times. |
Bobby Lee
Sysop From: Cloverdale, North California, USA
|
posted 11 June 2005 12:06 PM
profile
The Shubb bar is really good for blues. The tone is thinnner and it sustains less than the more standard BJS type of. The finger hold groove makes you want to shake it instead of rolling for vibrato, and it makes it easy to lift off the strings. Lifting the bar can be a bad habit in country, but in blues the noisy "bar kiss" effect is well accepted.
I keep the Shubb handy and use it to good effect on certain tunes. I could never get used to a Stevens but the Shubb's rounded nose takes care of that problem.------------------
 Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Williams D-12 E9, C6add9, Sierra Olympic S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop S-8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (E13, C6 or A6) |
Ron Randall
Member From: Dallas, Texas, USA
|
posted 11 June 2005 05:14 PM
profile
Amen on the Shubb-Pearse. There are two lengths. I like the short one for resonator. Easy to do forward slants. |
Mark van Allen
Member From: loganville, Ga. USA
|
posted 11 June 2005 10:27 PM
profile
Sorry, Frank, I'm a bit too handy with the caps button...
What I meant was "The players in the "Sacred" tradition "... as in Aubrey Ghent, Cambell Brothers, RR, etc. |
The Steel Guitar Forum
