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Author
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Topic: Round bar vs dobro bar?
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Joe Lipman
Member From: Nashville TN
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posted 06 August 2005 02:40 PM
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I've been playing PSG for about 8 months now. I've been using a round bar like everyone else (as far as I can tell). I just got a dobro and have started using a bar with an indentation. Presumably, this will allow me to pick up the bar to play open strings, and allow me to block the strings with my hand behind the bar. Would this indented bar translate to the PSG? Is anyone doing this now? If so, what are the pros and cons of using it? Thanks in advance for any advice on this subject. Joe
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Chris Lasher
Member From: Athens, Georgia, USA
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posted 06 August 2005 03:18 PM
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quote:
Is anyone doing this now?
Well, most prominently, Robert Randolph.I've got a Scheerhorn steel that I love for resonator guitar, but I much prefer the sound and feel of my BJS steel for pedal steel. quote:
Presumably, this will allow me to pick up the bar to play open strings, and allow me to block the strings with my hand behind the bar.
It should make it easier, but I'd like to note that I've seen pedal steel players pick up the steel and play with the rounded tip on a single string with the same purpose. Likewise, hammer-ons and pull-offs are still quite possible with a rounded steel--check out some of Mike Johnson's solos for good examples of the technique ("Munster Rag" with Brad Paisley or "Kick My @$$" with Big & Rich, clips of both available on Mike's site).The Scheerhorn bar definitely favors more agressive playing, for me, which makes it perfect for my poor imitation of Jerry Douglas, whose style is characterized by HO's and PO's and rapid sliding. As an electrified instrument, though, I feel that (clean-tone) pedal steel begs for more finesse that a round steel encourages. YMMV. Go for what works for you  |
Joe Lipman
Member From: Nashville TN
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posted 06 August 2005 04:42 PM
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Chris,Thanks for some very meaningful advice. I appreciate your time. Joe
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Paul Norman
Member From: North Carolina, USA
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posted 06 August 2005 05:38 PM
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On a 10 or 12 string you should only keep the bar on the strings you are playing so
as you move from 6 string and 5 string across the fret to get a higher note the bar needs to be round nosed to keep from snagging on the strings that are not pushed down by the bar. |
Keith Murrow
Member From: Wichita, KS, USA
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posted 07 August 2005 07:36 AM
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..[This message was edited by Keith Murrow on 25 May 2006 at 05:31 PM.] |
Jack Stoner
Sysop From: Inverness, Florida
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posted 07 August 2005 08:36 AM
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This not meant as personal flame against anyone, but I see those that keep trying to "reinvent the wheel". Bobbe Seymour had one of his recent newsletters about bars. The accepted "norm" for Pedal Steel Guitar is a round bar, not a "dobro" bar, etc. This seems to happen a lot with someone that is moving/learning Pedal Steel from some other instrument. I've seen it recently with a guy that is moving to Pedal Steel from Dobro - he's trying to play the Pedal Steel like a Dobro and it sounds "bad". When I moved from Lap Steel to Pedal Steel I had to learn many technicques over as they were different. I had played lead guitar and a lot of Chet Atkins style with fingers but I still had to learn different technique and coordination of my left picking fingers. |
David Doggett
Member From: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA
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posted 07 August 2005 11:40 AM
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I played Dobro with the usual Stevens bar, but when I took up pedal steel I learned with a round bar - it's a different tone and style. However, for blues on pedal steel, I use a Shubb Pearse #2, that has a Dobro type grip and a "half" bullet nose. I keep both bars on my steel. I see nothing wrong with learning to use both - they serve different purposes. |
Jim Sliff
Member From: Hermosa Beach California, USA
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posted 07 August 2005 12:09 PM
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"On a 10 or 12 string you should only keep the bar on the strings you are playing"Why? I've heard this before but don't see what practical value it has. Seems like one more move to complicate matters. Didn't mean to hijack the thread, but it's a question I've wondered about.[This message was edited by Jim Sliff on 07 August 2005 at 12:09 PM.] |
David Doggett
Member From: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA
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posted 07 August 2005 03:11 PM
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Jim, on E9, strings 1 and 2 are scale strings that are not part of the major chord formed by strings 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, and 10. If you pick strings 1 or 2 for a scale or melody, and let them ring when you go back to playing the chord on the lower strings, there will be dissonance. You can prevent this by moving the bullet nose of the bar up onto strings 1 and 2 when you need them. After you have picked one of those strings, you can pull the bar toward you so the nose comes off those strings, and let your fingers extending behind and beyond the bar block those strings. This is simply an easy way of blocking those strings with the left hand, rather than with the right hand, which would be more difficult. The strings below 1 and 2 may not need to be blocked this way, because they typically change with the chord. However, in using these chord strings for melody work, it is sometimes undesirable to have harmony above the melody, so even for strings 3-6, one might want to let the bar nose cover only the top string of the desired chord. |
Chris Lasher
Member From: Athens, Georgia, USA
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posted 07 August 2005 05:32 PM
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quote:
I see nothing wrong with learning to use both - they serve different purposes.
I'm totally with David on this. If somebody wants to use something different and it makes him or her happy, why stop them? It's not going to hurt anything. It's his or her right to the pursuit of happiness. quote:
This not meant as personal flame against anyone, but I see those that keep trying to "reinvent the wheel". Bobbe Seymour had one of his recent newsletters about bars. The accepted "norm" for Pedal Steel Guitar is a round bar, not a "dobro" bar, etc.
Yeah, well, that's the norm today. Who's to say about tomorrow. It's all about breaking traditions, anyways. Each generation has to reinvent the wheel so that it has its own mark distinct from others, but only so much--a wheel's still a wheel.It's like the Vince Gill song, "Young Man's Town".
quote:
It's a young man's town,
Full of young man's dreams.
And all God's children gotta learn to spread their wings.
Sometimes you gotta stand back,
And watch 'em burn it to the ground,
Even though you built it, it's a young man's town.
[This message was edited by Chris Lasher on 07 August 2005 at 05:34 PM.] |
Michael Garnett
Member From: Fort Worth, TX
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posted 08 August 2005 07:26 AM
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It perhaps doesn't belong here since he's a non-peddler, but Bobby Koefer has been playing with an indented bar for over 40 years. He played with Wills for quite some time, and although his playing style is not exactly "normal" from a stylistic standpoint, he makes great tone by simply attacking the strings with both hands, including hammering on with the bar. His triple neck Fender Stringmaster is one of the best sounding guitars I've ever heard. http://www.greenapple.com/~ace1/index124.html Here's a very old picture of Bobby playing no-pedals. Notice his left hand technique, he doesn't "trail" his fingers behind the bar, he grips the bar with all 5 fingers. -MG P.S. - Here's a more current picture. Once again, notice how he grips the bar.
http://www.hotjazzcaravan.com/bios/bobby.htm [This message was edited by Michael Garnett on 08 August 2005 at 07:29 AM.] |
Bob Hoffnar
Member From: Brooklyn, NY
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posted 08 August 2005 08:06 AM
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JIm
quote:
"On a 10 or 12 string you should only keep the bar on the strings you are playing"
Why? I've heard this before but don't see what practical value it has. Seems like one more move to complicate matters.
One reason is to clean up the sound. No low scrapping sounds as you move the bar and no strings resonating that are not intended. Another reason is accuracy with intonation and phrasing. ------------------
Bob
My Website 
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Webb Kline
Member From: Bloomsburg, PA
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posted 08 August 2005 09:20 AM
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I play on the tip of my pedal steel bar a lot. I've also gotten into using it on the Dobro more often than not. I love the tone of it. Unless it's a song that requires extremely fast movement, I use the big bar exclusively on psg, dobro and my lap steels. |
Michael Breid
Member From: Eureka Springs, Arkansas, USA
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posted 11 August 2005 11:12 AM
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Check out Shubb's Gary Swallow dobro bar with the wooden top. I like it better than my Sheerhorn. The angle is more pronounced for easier "hammer ons" and "pull offs". Janet Davis Music in Bella Vista, Arkansas handles them, or you can go on line and log on to Shubb and get ordering info. Or, your local music store might have them. Try one out. I think you'll like it. Michael |
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