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Author
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Topic: Just Play the Melody
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Chuck Hall
Member From: Bonaire, Georga, USA
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posted 14 October 2005 02:32 AM
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As a little help for the new folks and intermediate players, what are your tips, tricks or techniques, or thought processes for playing the melody of a song?[This message was edited by Chuck Hall on 14 October 2005 at 03:48 AM.] |
Jack Stoner
Sysop From: Inverness, Florida
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posted 14 October 2005 02:58 AM
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There's no "one rule" that can be applied. It all depends on the particular song, if you are splitting the break with another instrument or instruments, etc. Some songs playing the verse may be appropriate, others the chorus, some it's just a "turnaround", etc. Some songs you can play basically whatever you want for the melody and others you have to play the "signature" lick(s) as people associate and identify with the song. Finally, just playing the chord structure, although not the actual melody, may be appropriate for some songs. |
Ernest Cawby
Member From: Lake City, Florida, USA
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posted 14 October 2005 03:06 AM
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Order Jeff Newmans course Just Play The Melody it will put you on the right track.ernie |
Ernie Pollock
Member From: Mt Savage, Md USA
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posted 14 October 2005 05:24 AM
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I would suggest you study & memorize the scales on the 5th & 6th strings, this + all the other ways of doing scales will help you with playing the melody. I practice scales all the time, on the E9th & the B6th tuning on the Universal steel, these are the most important things you could ever learn.Ernie  'Play the Melody Man' ------------------
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Chuck Hall
Member From: Bonaire, Georga, USA
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posted 14 October 2005 07:42 AM
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Thanks all who have responded. What I am kind of looking for is (quote from Larry Bell in an earlier post) quote:
an example of a tool of improvisation (or 'speed picking' if you wish) to be able to navigate among the three or four primary pockets on E9
some sort of explanation of the pockets on E9.  [This message was edited by Chuck Hall on 14 October 2005 at 07:43 AM.] |
Larry Bell
Member From: Englewood, Florida
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posted 14 October 2005 07:59 AM
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Chuck,
Think key of G
There are pockets of notes around the three or four places where you find a GMaj chord.3rd fret -- no pedals
6th fret -- A+F
8th fret -- E to D# lever
10th fret -- A+B
then start all over -- 15th NP 18th A+F, etc. Look at each position
Where does the Major SCALE live around those positions? Are there pedals that can be used? Remember that you can move the bar or use pedals -- we're just looking for clusters of notes that comprise a Do Re Mi Fa Sol La Ti Do (MAJOR) scale. Once you know how to play a major scale in several (or ALL) of these positions you are well armed to improvise OR learn to find the notes of the melody. Think 'Mary Had a Little Lamb' -- find it in as many of those chord positions as possible. Then, think of slightly more complex melodies and work from there. A good musician can listen to a melody and JUST PLAY IT. Strive for that level of competence. ------------------
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1984 Sho-Bud S/D-12 7x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps
[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 14 October 2005 at 08:01 AM.]
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James Cann
Member From: Phoenix, AZ (heart still in Boston)
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posted 14 October 2005 10:12 PM
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If you're an ear player like me, you internalize the chord progressions which include the melody. The only problem with this is that you tend to play the melody as chords.I did this for a long time before realizing the 'muddy' quality of it. Now I concentrate on two note melody voicings rather thn triads, using pedals and levers as necessary--much cleaner this way. I often wish, as I play, my brain was identifying chords and structures the way many here can, but my skill is too innate, and it gets in the way. Whitman said it best, I think: "When I heard the learn'd astronomer lecture . . . was shown the charts and diagrams . . . I wandered off . . . and looked up in perfect silence at the stars." |
Chuck Hall
Member From: Bonaire, Georga, USA
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posted 15 October 2005 06:24 AM
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James
I think I'm along those same lines of trying to use 2 and 3 note chords. I know there has to be a better way. It's like I can't see the forest for the trees. |
Les Anderson
Member From: Rossland, BC, Canada
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posted 15 October 2005 08:42 AM
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quote:
Larry Bell wrote:
Once you know how to play a major scale in several (or ALL) of these positions you are well armed to improvise OR learn to find the notes of the melody. Think 'Mary Had a Little Lamb' -- find it in as many of those chord positions as possible. Then, think of slightly more complex melodies and work from there.A good musician can listen to a melody and JUST PLAY IT. Strive for that level of competence.
One of the best suggested lines of advice I have seen on this forum. Though most musicians refuse to admit this, 50% of all musicians cannot play or even find the full range of scales they can get out of their instruments. I play with a group of guys who are in their 60s & 70s and our band leader still pushes us/them to warm up by running through the complete range of scales of our instrumets. Good one Larry. ------------------
(I am not right all of the time but I sure like to think I am!)
[This message was edited by Les Anderson on 15 October 2005 at 08:44 AM.]
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Al Marcus
Member From: Cedar Springs,MI USA
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posted 15 October 2005 09:51 AM
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Larry Bell-Amen to that. Very good thoughts and advice.....al ------------------
My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/
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James Cann
Member From: Phoenix, AZ (heart still in Boston)
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posted 15 October 2005 10:47 AM
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Check out Ray Montee's "Music theory - ?" in "Steel Playesrs." Good stuff here. |
Marc Friedland
Member From: Vallejo, CA
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posted 15 October 2005 03:44 PM
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A few years ago I came to that realization that even though I knew where different scales were on the neck, the names of the notes I was playing, and a decent understanding of music theory, it still took me longer than I thought it should to be able to pick out and play various melodies with any fluidity. I could do a pretty good job of answering the lead singer’s phrases, creating or copying intros, taking coherent solos, etc., and even though I played them in the proper key, they are all slightly different slants on playing music, and not the same as playing the actual melody. I did something about it and this has definitely helped me. I created instrumental tracks of six Xmas songs and a couple of Hebrew songs to play along to. I was able to do this myself because I have a small multi-track recorder, and am able to play keyboards and guitar, and can program a drum machine. Some people create tracks to play along to with programs like “Band in a Box” or pay someone to create the tracks for them, but the important thing is how to use whatever tracks you have, to help learn to be able to play the melodies. Generally speaking, Holiday songs like these are good tools to use, because they tend to use their entire respective major or minor scale, and since most people have heard them quite a bit and are familiar with them, should make it easy to pick out the melody, like Larry’s example of “Mary had a little lamb.”
I would start by figuring out the melody on one single string without using any pedals or levers. Then I would experiment with finding places throughout the neck where I could play them without having to move the bar as much. Sometimes this would end up being in positions I was already used to, but sometimes it wasn’t. Then I would try adding a harmony note or two, and this really helped me gain a better understanding of the psg neck. Be sure not to change the melody, when using this approach. Try having the melody note as being the high note of the harmony, and then another time as being the lower or middle note. Obviously, you don’t have to use Xmas carols. They could be songs of any era or genre, as I typically program songs from the 50’s, 60’s and 70’s that I like and am familiar enough with their melodies to be able to figure them out. Admittedly, you may not HAVE to be able to play the melody of a given song in order to get a job as a steeler or to be satisfied with your level of playing, but I’m glad I decided to focus on it more in recent years as I have.
If you feel it would be helpful to have my CD of Holiday instrumentals minus the steel, as soon as I can find it, I would be glad to make a copy and send it to you. I’m guessing that $5.00 would be a fair price, to cover my CD and shipping costs and to send a donation to the Forum. This offer goes for anyone that would like a copy.
-- Marc
www.marcfriedland.com
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Marc Friedland
Member From: Vallejo, CA
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posted 16 October 2005 11:22 AM
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Someone sent me an email asking for the CD. I did find it and will mail it to them. If anyone else would like a copy for only $5, just send me an email.
The songs are:
Santa Claus is coming to town
What Child is this
Winter Wonderland
God rest ye merry gentlemen
Jingle bell rock
Silent night
Hatikvah
Exodus-- Marc |
Chuck Hall
Member From: Bonaire, Georga, USA
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posted 17 October 2005 04:21 AM
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Marc, you've got mail |
David Doggett
Member From: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA
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posted 17 October 2005 09:39 AM
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Like everything with pedal steel, playing melodies is not so simple. There are at least three ways to play melodies that each have a very different sound.One way is to stay at the same fret, and get as many melody notes as possible by moving across all the strings and using pedals and levers. The pedals and levers can create slurs and moving harmonies, and picking the chromatic strings sounds harp-like. Most steels can't play a full chromatic scale at a single fret, so you might have to move the bar a fret or two to catch accidentals and chromatic notes. These single fret positions are the pockets Larry describes. The easiest pocket is probably the open pedal one, say the 3rd fret in the key of G. But many players spend more time at the pedal down pocket (10th fret in key of G). I think most players use the A/F pocket more in passing, and don't spend alot of time there. Each pocket has its own sound. There are also three minor chord pockets (A pedal; BC pedals; E lower lever). Another method is to play the melody by sliding up and down a single string. You can add moving harmony above or below it by picking two or more strings and using pedals, levers and slants. This has a very different sound than staying at the same fret and picking different strings. It is a sound that is unique to the steel guitar. The third method is to combine the two above. You play across the strings in pockets, but also slide on the same string between pockets. You should practice playing melodies with all three of the above methods. As others mentioned above, the question arises as to how much harmony to add to the melody. If you sit at a keyboard and hold down simultaneously the I, IV and V chord, you will be holding down every note of the scale. If you add 7th chords, diminished and augmented chords, etc., you will also hold down the entire chromatic scale. Therefore, every note of a melody is part of one or more potential chords. With a very slow hymn-like melody, you could put a full chord with every melody note. With faster melodies, that becomes impractical, and might not sound good even if you could physically do it. So developing a feel for when to pick or sustain harmony below and above the melody is an improvisational art that can take a lifetime to learn well. The only caution is that playing the melody is a lead or solo technique. Playing the melody along with a vocalist or another lead instrument is not done, except occassionally for a special unison effect. |
John Ummel
Member From: Arlington, WA.
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posted 17 October 2005 11:13 AM
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This a very good topic. Very good advice has been given already. There is no easy way to get onto the art of "playing the melody".
Yes, learn scales, single note and harmonized, learn all the chord postions. I can pass on what one bandleader told me when I was very green and had a lot of theory but not much experience. I typically started my solo with great enthusiasm and at some point would get completely lost. He told me "just HUM the tune in your head while soloing" In this way you don't have to play the melody note for note all the way through but follow the chords and the PHRASING. I think there is no easy way to learn this phrasing idea. Great musicians are always praised for their phrasing. listen, listen, listen, jump in and try.
Johnny |
Willis Vanderberg
Member From: Bradenton, FL, USA
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posted 17 October 2005 05:47 PM
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I agree with Larry . Also I feel that single notes are very important. By moving the right hand to a different position the sound can vary a great deal. There is a lot of " fill" that can be accomplished with single notes and bar movement .At one point I tried to play as many three string harmonies as I could. When listening to Emmons and other great masters of the instrument you can find all kinds of beauty on two strings.I guess that is why I do not care, too much for the over dub or multiple recordings. |
Bob Blair
Member From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
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posted 17 October 2005 05:54 PM
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Being able to play melodies using single notes is an important skill. You can add in the harmonies later, but you need to know where your melody is, you have to be able to put extra emphasis on the notes that comprise the melody. Just like the lead vocal needs to be a bit louder than the harmonies. Just think of melodies you like and would like to play, and learn to play them in single nots, as though you were just picking out the tune on the piano. It gets easier the more you do it. |
Chuck Hall
Member From: Bonaire, Georga, USA
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posted 18 October 2005 03:49 AM
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Thanks, with expertise like Dave and Larry and all of you, it's beginning to make sense. |
Donny Hinson
Member From: Balto., Md. U.S.A.
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posted 18 October 2005 02:01 PM
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Practice playing in different (lower) registers, i.e., practice playing the melody using all chords on just strings 5,6, & 8. If you stay off the first 4 strings, the "whiny" steel sound (that some people don't like) just goes away. Lower voicings (on strings 5-10) give you an organ-like fullness that you just can't get on the high strings. Then practice using unison harmonies, like 5, 6, & 10, for even more variety. |
Pete Grant
Member From: Auburn, CA, USA
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posted 18 October 2005 10:47 PM
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Sing whatever you play. |
James Cann
Member From: Phoenix, AZ (heart still in Boston)
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posted 20 October 2005 03:01 PM
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quote:
[. . . you don't have to play the melody note for note all the way through but follow the chords and the PHRASING. I think there is no easy way to learn this phrasing idea.
Talk about it! I haven't a clue about how to 'explain' phrasing. I only can do what I can feel, and I can't explain that, either!! |
Chuck Hall
Member From: Bonaire, Georga, USA
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posted 21 October 2005 09:15 AM
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to the top[This message was edited by Chuck Hall on 25 October 2005 at 07:31 AM.] |
Chuck Hall
Member From: Bonaire, Georga, USA
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posted 27 October 2005 04:36 AM
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Mark
Did you get my snail mail? No answer necessary if affirmative.Thanks ------------------
EMCI D10 8/4 and Nashville 400 |
Chuck Hall
Member From: Bonaire, Georga, USA
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posted 06 November 2005 01:32 PM
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Thanks to those who have replied so far. I may just learn this thing yet. |
James Sission
Member From: Sugar Land,Texas USA
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posted 09 November 2005 02:57 PM
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David Doggett described exactly what Jeff Newman teaches on his course “Just play the Melody”. I just completed that course and he teaches 4 different ways to play a melody line. In effect, what he is teaching is actually 4 ways to play a harmonic scale. If you take the time to look closely at what he teaches, you find that it gets pretty easy to change keys long with the backing tracks he provides. In fact, he shows you how to think of the I chord scale and play it over the progression without having to think about the upcoming changes. He shows how to add tension to scale in order to force a resolution as well. Like anything else, if you take the time to learn the basics, you can figure a lot of other stuff out on your own. For instance, Jeff Newman teaches a “kick-off” in a couple of positions. With very little effort, one can move those notes a little and re-phrase them to play tons different turn arounds and solos in different keys. In fact, the last part of the course, he encourages that and shows a full scale in the key A that moves across the strings as well as up the fret board all at the same time. All he is doing is mixing those pockets that David talks about so that he can connect them all together and have a wider variety of notes to choose from. That course is well worth the money for anyone trying to make sense of scales and learn to apply them to music. Obviously, once you learn those scales, you are not limited to country songs, and you can voice them to play whatever you want…Davids advice is really the building of a strong foundation..James |
Chuck Hall
Member From: Bonaire, Georga, USA
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posted 10 November 2005 05:08 AM
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John quote:
I typically started my solo with great enthusiasm and at some point would get completely lost
This is what usually happens to me. When I start to hum the band has moved on down the line and I seem to be trying to play catch up. Most of the time I can use a single note or a comp chord to stay in bounds but you know what happens to the general feel. It's not wrong but it doesn't sound as good as it could. This forum is a wonderful place. So many willing to help those who need it. ------------------
?MCI D10 8/4 and Nashville 400
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John McGann
Member From: Boston, Massachusetts, USA
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posted 10 November 2005 05:58 AM
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Most notes of most melodies are chord tones (whatever the chord of the moment is)- so the more chord positions you know, the more places you'll have to find those melodies.------------------
http://www.johnmcgann.com
Info for musicians, transcribers, technique tips and fun stuff. Joaquin Murphey transcription book, Rhythm Tuneup DVD and more... |
Al Marcus
Member From: Cedar Springs,MI USA
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posted 10 November 2005 08:48 AM
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John McGann-Right on. Know the Chords and you will usually find the melody in them....al------------------
My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/
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Chuck Hall
Member From: Bonaire, Georga, USA
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posted 21 March 2006 02:22 PM
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Anything new to add?------------------
Chuck
Country Fever Band |
Ward Skinner
Member From: Mission, TX
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posted 22 March 2006 06:15 PM
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Great topic and great info. All I can add is, if you want to know pockets, get Over The Top from Jeff Newman and you will ask no more. It has 3 parts, AB pedals, F & D levers. I got that in January as a newbie and it did wonders, his teaching is like a dart hitting a double bull with me. What's cool to me is how to substitute chords for other chords, such as playing a 4 chord in place of 2 minor as Newman shows..the more options the better. A friend recently told me to sub a 5 for a 3 minor which I got. Haven't got the subbing a 1 for a 6 yet, think I'll try that tonight. I'm working on the scales a little everyday, not enough but so much to learn. But if you can learn the pockets, string them all together, it's not too hard to play a decent melody. This machine is a funny thing. I played in a band that added a D to Silver Wings (in E)..as in "Silver Wings D D D B7 slowly fading out of sight". I've heard other bands do that too. No D in E, but you can easily explain it away as a flatted 7. Newman's course has Silver Wings, and plays the 2 minor at 5A and 8 AF. Playing the 2 minor at 5A, strings 4&5, then sliding down to 2AB sounded familiar. Looking at it, playing the 2 minor at that position, is 2/3 of the D chord. Huh! Doesn't take much to amaze me. |
basilh
Member From: United Kingdom
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posted 22 March 2006 06:48 PM
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quote:
what are your tips, tricks or techniques, or thought processes for playing the melody of a song?
Learn the Chords and the WORDS of the song you're trying to play..[This message was edited by basilh on 22 March 2006 at 06:48 PM.] |
Jack Latimer
Member From: Ontario, Canada
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posted 24 March 2006 11:01 AM
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I agree with Ward to get "Over The Top". This has helped me in a big way. |
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