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Author
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Topic: Changer metal material?
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Kirk Hamre
Member From: Birmingham, Alabama
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posted 14 November 2005 09:11 AM
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Does anyone build a pedal steel guitar with changers that don't burr or wear? I believe most changers are aluminum...this is a very soft material...why not use a hardened material that the strings can't wear? |
Jack Stoner
Sysop From: Inverness, Florida
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posted 14 November 2005 09:19 AM
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The material commonly used (aluminum) is because of the sound. There have been some steels built with fingers from other materials - if they were the "best" all the manufacturers would be using something other than aluminum. I don't think the aluminum fingers are really an issue with "burrs". My Franklin, which has aluminum fingers, is nearly 23 years old (will be in late December) and I've had one burr problem, on the 5th string on the E9th neck in all those years - and I use stainless steel wound strings. I had an Emmons D-10 PP before the Franklin and in the 12 years I had it, there was never a "burr" issue with the aluminum fingers on the Emmons. I do periodically polish the fingers with an slightly abrasive polish (Simichrome or MAAS). That's just a good "preventive maintenance" procedure. |
Grant Johnson
Member From: Nashville TN
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posted 14 November 2005 09:24 AM
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I think that the consensus among builders is that the harder the metal, the brighter and thinner the tone. Folks who have tried making stainless steel fingers, have had poor tonal results... (Overly bright and thin). So they try to balance the tonal aspects of metal with durability. It seems like most changers are made from aluminum or chromed mild steel... |
Peter
Member From: Cape Town, South Africa
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posted 14 November 2005 09:55 AM
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Here is some other material.....
More info here http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum9/HTML/002162.html
 [This message was edited by Peter on 14 November 2005 at 09:57 AM.] |
Mark Vinbury
Member From: N. Kingstown, Rhode Island, USA
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posted 14 November 2005 10:14 AM
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My guess is aluminum gets used because it has good sonic qualities but more likely because it machines easily and doesn't require plating.
Most other mass-produced electric guitars use steel bridge parts.
Considering the amount of machining work and the size of the PSG companies producing instruments, just seems like softer metals like brass or alum. would be the choice(easier on tooling) in spite of their higher cost.
I also figure the prototypes of the modern steels were made using custom cast and machined alum. parts and they just kept building them that way even as sales increased.
The weight of the instrument might also be a consideration.Possibly the fact that a lot of parts can be made from stock aluminum extrusions, or custom dies can be made which produce finer extrusions than might be available in steel,requiring less machining.
My feeling is these factors played a bigger part in the choice of materials. The fact that Alu. sounds OK was probably a welcome addition. [This message was edited by Mark Vinbury on 14 November 2005 at 10:34 AM.] |
Erv Niehaus
Member From: Litchfield, MN, USA
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posted 14 November 2005 11:05 AM
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I have an Emmons p/p with brass changer fingers. I am going to try and put some brass keyhead rollers on it also. Bob Rains uses brass rollers on his guitars and I am going to try a make a set of his rollers fit the Emmons. 
Erv |
richard burton
Member From: Britain
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posted 14 November 2005 11:44 AM
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ZB steels have a steel (stainless?) crown, and they sound OK |
Bill Simmons
Member From: Keller, Texas, USA
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posted 14 November 2005 12:33 PM
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One key to minimize wear on your changer is when you are changing strings be certain to place the string end 'up' so the winding end doesn't dig into the changer. |
Bill Simmons
Member From: Keller, Texas, USA
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posted 14 November 2005 12:38 PM
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Hi Erv...Gary Carpenter and I experimented with aluminum rollers vs brass rollers on both our Rains. Gary and I really didn't notice any major difference in sustain or tone like we thought it might. I just kept the aluminum rollers since they were installed for the test. It would be interesting if anyone else experimeted with brass rollers etc and what their conclusions are...Bill |
Erv Niehaus
Member From: Litchfield, MN, USA
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posted 14 November 2005 01:54 PM
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Bill,
I got an e-mail from a Rains player just a little while ago and his brass rollers were replaced with aluminum ones and he didn't care for it and went back to the brass. I guess it's a case of "different strokes for different folks".
Erv |
Bill Simmons
Member From: Keller, Texas, USA
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posted 14 November 2005 05:43 PM
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Thanks Erv...One day I mentioned to Gary Carpenter that the majority of the builders used aluminum rollers instead of brass that Rains was using. (I believe Mullen's is the largest manufacturer that uses brass.) Gary and Bobby Rains are so open to ideas to make the finest sounding steel that they made up aluminum rollers. As mentioned, we put them on Gary's and my Rains. We both played them at gigs for a week and didn't notice any major difference. My logic was that aluminum changers with aluminum rollers might sound the best and that brass was a 'softer' metal and...well, now you know why I don't build steels HA HA. Let me know how you like your new Rains Erv...Rains SD 10 "The Spirit" Gospel Model, 4+5; '68 Emmons D-10, 8+6' Vegas 400; RV-3; Hilton pedal [This message was edited by Bill Simmons on 14 November 2005 at 05:44 PM.] |
Lee Baucum
Member From: McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) - The Final Frontier
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posted 14 November 2005 05:57 PM
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Another thing that Mullen does is anodize the changer fingers.Lee, from South Texas |
chas smith
Member From: Encino, CA, USA
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posted 14 November 2005 08:21 PM
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quote:
Another thing that Mullen does is anodize the changer fingers
I was told that anodized aluminum doesn't conduct electricity so that would break the ground to the strings through the changer.I made a set of brass fingers to go on my Super Pro, and to be honest, I couldn't tell the difference between them and the aluminum ones I made. |
Mark Fasbender
Member From: Salt Lake City,Utah
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posted 14 November 2005 08:53 PM
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Does any one know what grade or alloy is commonly used? I know aluminum comes in many different hardnesses,etc.------------------
Got Twang ? Mark |
Per Berner
Member From: Skövde, Sweden
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posted 14 November 2005 11:21 PM
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Funny thing: On a Stratocaster, the original flimsy stamped steel bridge saddles (probably made that way purely for cost reasons) are generally considered better sounding than any modern, heavier alternative made from solid steel or brass. ------------------
´75 Emmons p/p D10 8+4, '96 Emmons Legrande II D10 8+5, ca '72 AWH Custom D10 8+3, Peavey Nashville 1000
[This message was edited by Per Berner on 15 November 2005 at 12:21 AM.]
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Ernest Cawby
Member From: Lake City, Florida, USA
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posted 15 November 2005 05:14 AM
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My shobud is more than 30 years old and no problems at all, no burs.ernie |
Mike Mantey
Member From: Seibert, Colorado, USA
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posted 15 November 2005 07:30 AM
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To clarify on the Mullen, we do anodize the changer rollers and as far as I know we are the only ones. We have been doing this since about 1980, before that we tried steel and other materials. The rollers on the Mullen do not wear like most rollers, the anodizing is very hard and it does not create any ground issues. As far as the nut rollers are concerned, we used to use aluminum, but switched to brass. They sounded about the same and the reason for the switch is the brass held up much better over time. Little trade secrets that have made our guitars what they are today. They are one of the finest and we never experienced any problems with either rollers. I am sure we will see more of this now in the future.------------------
Mike Mantey
Sales & Production Manager
Mullen Guitar Co., Inc.
(970) 664-2518
www.mullenguitars.com
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Jim Palenscar
Member From: Oceanside, Calif, USA
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posted 15 November 2005 07:48 AM
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Actually- the 1st guitar that I built was basically a remodel of an Ernie Ball/Sierra and it had stainless steel fingers on the changer (as well as 1/2" stainless cross shafts) and the sound wasn't near as bright as the reputation of stainless leads you to believe. It sounded fine and never had any problems with the fingers~~ |
chas smith
Member From: Encino, CA, USA
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posted 15 November 2005 10:27 AM
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quote:
Does any one know what grade or alloy is commonly used? I know aluminum comes in many different hardnesses,etc.
I would expect that it would be 6061 T-6. 6063, the stuff your screen door and windows are made from, is much softer. Other, less common, alloys are 2024 and 7075 and they are much harder than 6061.
quote:
it had stainless steel fingers on the changer (as well as 1/2" stainless cross shafts) and the sound wasn't near as bright as the reputation of stainless leads you to believe.
My experience of stainless is, it isn't very musical until you get up into some of the more exotic alloys like inconel 625 or 718, the more common stuff, like a 303 or 304 is pretty much unusable for things that have to resonate. I don't know the alloys for strings, but keep in mind that they are under tension. Rubber bands, under tension, have musical qualities. |
Al Udeen
Member From: maple grove mn usa
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posted 15 November 2005 08:47 PM
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In 94 I bought a new "drop dead gorgous" dark red lacquer w/wood necks & mother of pearl inlay Mullen, to my surprise the guitar arrived with beautiful highly polished aluminum roller fingers, that looked much better than those ugly black anodized ones, when it came time to change strings I noticed some grooving on the 3rd & 5th fingers, I was told by the factory, to send the guitar back & they would change them, the more I looked at the aluminum fingers, I decided I could live with a little light sanding & buffing with Mothers polish, also, after changing to 710 pickups, the tone was to die for, this is the best guitar I have owned & I've had a ton of them,[including the 3rd double-neck Sho-Bud that I had Shot & Buddy build in 57], Now 12 years later, I play this Mullen every week, & have only broke two 3rd strings in over a year! my choice has always been wood necks & aluminum fingers! Al Udeen[This message was edited by Al Udeen on 15 November 2005 at 08:49 PM.] [This message was edited by Al Udeen on 15 November 2005 at 08:54 PM.] [This message was edited by Al Udeen on 15 November 2005 at 09:34 PM.] |
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