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Author
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Topic: The " Z " Lever
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Michael Breid
Member From: Eureka Springs, Arkansas, USA
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posted 25 November 2005 01:46 PM
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I read an article by Bobbe Seymour talking about the " Z " lever. What is it? According to Bobbe everybody wants one. I sent him my copedent, but he said I do not have the infamous " Z " lever on my steel. Can anyone out there tell me what the heck this Z lever is? Thanks-Michael in the Ozarks |
Jack Francis
Member From: Mesa, Arizona, USA
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posted 25 November 2005 02:11 PM
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If we told ya.........well, you know the rest! |
Al Udeen
Member From: maple grove mn usa
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posted 25 November 2005 04:15 PM
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Will one of these open Zip Files? Iv'e got about 600 of them I cant open in folders. |
Bob Tuttle
Member From: San Angelo, Tx, USA
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posted 25 November 2005 04:38 PM
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Michael, the Seymour "Z" lever lowers the second string Eb to D, raises the 7th F# to G#, and lowers the 9th D to C#. It is used in conjunction with the lever which lowers the E's to Eb, so it should be on the opposite knee. Bobbe Seymour has some instruction videos which explains the use of these two "magic" knee levers. There is, indeed, a lot of stuff there. If I could only have two knee levers, that would be the two I would want.[This message was edited by Bob Tuttle on 25 November 2005 at 04:42 PM.] |
Grant Johnson
Member From: Nashville TN
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posted 25 November 2005 05:02 PM
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I have this lever on my Sho-Bud. I am just starting to scratch the surface of it, but you can get some real cool voicings with it.
I am considering getting the video from Bobbe.
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George Kimery
Member From: Limestone, TN, USA
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posted 25 November 2005 07:33 PM
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I have all the changes of the Z lever, but not all on one lever. I have the 2nd string D# to D and the 9th string D to C# on RKR. I have the 7th string F# to G# on RKL. My E to Eb is on LKR. Will this setup work as a Z lever, or must EVERYTHING be on one lever? Would Bobbe's video do me any good with the set up that I have? Would it be worthwhile to change my 7th string F# to G# to the RKR? This would then make all three changes on one lever, a true Z lever. |
Roy Ayres
Member From: Starke, Florida, USA
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posted 25 November 2005 08:18 PM
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I understand that in naming knee levers, after the English alphabet has been exhausted, we go to the Greek alphabet. Right, Bobbe?------------------
Visit my Web Site at RoysFootprints.com
Browse my Photo Album and be sure to sign my Guest Book. |
John Bechtel
Member From: Nashville, Tennessee,U.S.A.
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posted 25 November 2005 08:54 PM
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It's my understanding that with the (Z)-Lever + the (E)-Lever plus all your other changes on the E9 tuning, if you f©©l around long enough you will find the “Lost~Chord” and won't even know it!  ------------------
“Big John” Bechtel
Soon to be: New Burgundy D–10 Derby (w/6 & 8)
’65 Re-Issue Fender Twin–Reverb Custom™ 15” Eminence
web site
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John Daugherty
Member From: Rolla, Missouri, USA
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posted 26 November 2005 04:34 AM
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You are right, BJ. That is why they still call it the lost chord. While you are fooling around, looking for the lost chord, the kid down the street with 2 pedals and 1 knee lever is getting all the jobs.------------------
www.phelpscountychoppers.com/steelguitar
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Ray Minich
Member From: Limestone, New York, USA
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posted 26 November 2005 08:12 AM
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John B., your response made me laugh so hard it hurt... especially the optics...The "Z" lever is why they invented spare pedal steel guitars. Don't monkey with the main gig rig! Learn it on the spare. THEN try for the extra gas mileage.
(Just tryin' to help ya sell more steels Bobbe  )[This message was edited by Ray Minich on 26 November 2005 at 08:20 AM.] |
Brandon Housewright
Member From: Statesboro, Georgia, USA
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posted 26 November 2005 09:09 AM
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I had my Marrs rebuild Pro I set up with only 3+2...ABC pedals, lowering E's LKR and the Z lever RKL and I love it. Makes you think more which I believe makes you a better player. Never miss the F lever or those other levers...you can get those sounds with several different methods if you try. Plus, I'm a "less is more" kinda man anyway. Most can't live without lots of levers, but I'm one who can. |
BobbeSeymour
Member From: Hendersonville TN USA
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posted 29 November 2005 09:29 AM
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Brandon, I agree totally. When I met Weldon Myrick, he was playing a 10 and 10 D-10. Now he's playing a 3-3 S-10, and playing more .
I'm playing a D-10 with 7 and 3 on most jobs in Nashville. And playing more than ever.
The "Z" lever replaces about four other knees so it makes you play a lot more with a lot less, I love this,
Bobbe |
Lee Baucum
Member From: McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) - The Final Frontier
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posted 29 November 2005 11:23 AM
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I think Bobbe must have had some help in developing the Z Lever.Click Here ------------------
Lee, from South Texas
Down On The Rio Grande Mullen U-12, Evans FET-500, Fender Steel King [This message was edited by Lee Baucum on 29 November 2005 at 11:25 AM.]
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John Billings
Member From: Northfield Center, Ohio, USA
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posted 29 November 2005 01:12 PM
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Lee, Bwahahahaha! Never know what you'll find whilst searchin' the web!
I remember a Jimmy Durante sketch from my childhood. He played the "Lost Chord" on his piano, then lost it again, and proceeded to rip the piano to pieces! Very funny! |
Bob Snelgrove
Member From: san jose, ca
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posted 29 November 2005 03:47 PM
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Anybody want to post some Z lever licks?
bob
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John Bechtel
Member From: Nashville, Tennessee,U.S.A.
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posted 29 November 2005 11:17 PM
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That would be infringment against Bobbe! ------------------
“Big John” Bechtel
Coming Soon: New Burgundy D–10 Derby (w/6 & 8),
’65 Re-Issue Fender Twin–Reverb Custom™ 15” Eminence.
Current Equipment |
BobbeSeymour
Member From: Hendersonville TN USA
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posted 30 November 2005 02:38 PM
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The great thing is that the "Z" lever isn't a "lick lever", it's a music lever. Just like your "E" lower isn't a lick lever, it's a music lever to help get chords you can't get in other ways.. The Franklin lever is a "Lick" lever,(primarily) as is the first string raise lever.
I feel that musically, the "Z" lever is a much more nesessary tool and equal to the "E" lower lever in importance.
Not a "lick" lever. Neal Flanz understands and knows it's not a "lick" lever! Bobbe
[This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 30 November 2005 at 02:39 PM.] |
BobbeSeymour
Member From: Hendersonville TN USA
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posted 30 November 2005 02:40 PM
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Lee Baucum, you are hilarious! (Susan Z. Lever huh?) |
Al Marcus
Member From: Cedar Springs,MI USA
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posted 30 November 2005 06:18 PM
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It looks to me like you can get a lot more into E6 stuff with the Z lever. Eh?...al ------------------
My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/
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Darryl Hattenhauer
Member From: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
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posted 30 November 2005 08:46 PM
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Lee and Bobbe,That's why the Z lever's chemistry is right. ------------------
"Elmore James kept playing the same licks over and over, but I get the feeling he meant it." Frank Zappa |
Charlie McDonald
Member From: Lubbock, Texas, USA
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posted 01 December 2005 05:26 AM
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Interestingly, I've been working out (on paper) a compressed E9 with a slightly extended bass, influenced by Ed Packard's PST13, characterized by stacked thirds.
F#
D
G#
E
B
G#
E
C#
A
EIt appears I have a 'Z' tuning. |
David Doggett
Member From: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA
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posted 01 December 2005 06:28 AM
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Charlie, you have created an E13 tuning that has the same intervals as C6 on the bottom 6 strings, and intervals like E9 on the top 6 strings (except you have a 7b instead of 7 on string 2). From low to high you have: 1 4 6 1 3 5 1 3 7b 2. The Z lever with the Es lowered gives: 1 2 3 6 6 1 3 6 3b 5. That can be considered a B6 tuning with roots on strings 5 and 10 and a minor 3rd on sting 2; or it is a G# minor tuning with roots on strings 3, 6 and 7. I suppose it could also be considered an E tuning with no roots: 5 6 7 3 3 5 7 3 7b 2. Then if you let off of the E lower lever you get the roots: 5 6 1 3 3 5 1 3 7b 2. In other words, the E lever toggles between the root and a major 7. That gives you an E6 on the bottom and an E9 on the top. There's a lot of stuff in all of the above copedents. But, with 10 strings, 3 or 4 pedals, and 4 or 5 levers, you will get a lot with virtually any copedent. You get a lot of the above with a universal, and you get two extra low strings. You pays yo money, and you takes what you gits. |
David Doggett
Member From: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA
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posted 01 December 2005 06:35 AM
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Has anyone noticed that you number scales and chords from the bottom up, but we number the strings from the top down. Why is that? Also, your touchtone phone is numbered from the top down; but your calculator or computer number pad goes from the bottom up, like an adding machine. I think Democrats designed some of these things, and Republicans designed the others. |
David L. Donald
Member From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand
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posted 01 December 2005 07:10 AM
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QWERTY or DVORACK...
Pers Anthony or the rest of the world.Sounds like a steel guitar discusion till time ends. I believe I have had it on the Bud for sometime,
an Earnest Bovine influence in this case.
Interesting changes.[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 01 December 2005 at 07:12 AM.] |
David Doggett
Member From: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA
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posted 01 December 2005 08:00 AM
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And Peavey tone knobs are -15 to +15, but Fender's knobs are all 0 to 10, except on a modern Bassman, which has tone knobs like Peavey.And on my car the wipers are on the little arm on the left side of the steering wheel, and the lights are on the dash buttons. But other cars have the lights on the little arm, and the wipers on dash buttons. I had a fender bender in my wife's car once because of that quirk. I was eyeballing the controls and some jerk pulled out of a parking place in front of me.  |
Charlie McDonald
Member From: Lubbock, Texas, USA
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posted 01 December 2005 08:32 AM
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In my years of observation, I have noticed very few conventions among things. Screws tighten clockwise, new bread wrappers untighten clockwise.
I guess that's why we have a Democratic convention and a Republican convention.Thank you, David, for the analysis of my proposal. I'll be giving it a lot of thought while it's still on paper. And yes, I see no reason why strings are numbered top to bottom. A useful convention would be low number/low pitch, like a piano. [This message was edited by Charlie McDonald on 01 December 2005 at 08:34 AM.] |
BobbeSeymour
Member From: Hendersonville TN USA
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posted 01 December 2005 08:45 AM
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However David, have you ever seen a monkey ride a bicyle? |
David Doggett
Member From: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA
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posted 01 December 2005 10:17 AM
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Yeah, but can the monkey Travis pick C6? Every time I sit down at the pedal steel I feel like a monkey tryin' to work a steam shovel.  |
Michael McCorry
Member From: Plattsburgh New York, USA
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posted 01 December 2005 01:26 PM
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Additional food for thought: In order to go back and forth you must go forth first before you can come back, therefore the phrase has to be forth and back.
Why is it that you drive on a parkway and park in a driveway? Why do we have to pay tolls on a freeway?...why is it when you send by truck is a shipment and when you send by ship its cargo?
Just something to mull over, untill then, may your mind not wander too far from your thoughts, and may your heart not attack you.
Mike------------------
"He who sacrifices personal liberties for a real or imagined sense of security, deserves neither liberty nor security"
Thomas Jefferson
---------------- |
Joe Rogers
Member From: Maurice, LA USA
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posted 01 December 2005 08:16 PM
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Speaking of Democrats & Republicans, I hear there is a new bumper sticker out that will serve the agendas of both parties. It reads, "Run Hillary, Run". Democrats put it on the back bumper, and Republicans put it on the front bumper. Always kidding. ;-) |
BobbeSeymour
Member From: Hendersonville TN USA
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posted 01 December 2005 08:28 PM
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I love this one Joe! Guess I'm a Republican by this measurment then!
(Come by and see me Joe, been too long)!
Bobbster |
Darryl Hattenhauer
Member From: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
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posted 01 December 2005 08:35 PM
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I'm sorry I have but one front bumper to give to my country. I'd never sacrifice a Fender, though |
David L. Donald
Member From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand
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posted 03 December 2005 05:25 AM
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I was messing with the Bud last night.
I realized I had moved the raise to the G#for ahwile before I had left.I put it back on the F#,
and shortly dropped 9 back down to C# ( E69 tuning)
with a raise to D with RKR and the F# raise. I found a number of cool passing chord things and transition stuff I remember liking a lot when I was experimenting last winter. My reference was not The Z Lever, but Earnest B.
But same result, a uselful set of changes. |
BobbeSeymour
Member From: Hendersonville TN USA
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posted 03 December 2005 08:52 AM
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If you just look at what that the "Z" lever does, and which strings it moves, you'll see that it does not effect any of the "Major Chord" strings around it, Just the incidentals, 2,7,and 9.
So no matter what you are playing, if the "weird" strings in your tuning don't sound right with what you are playing, push the knee lever and you'll have strings that will work for you! This is an over simplification, but, it works. It's like having a eraser on a pencel, make a mistake by hiting the wrong string and all you have to do is push the knee lever.
I do have a video tape and a DVD showing all this plus how to get started playing many interesting things that can be gotten no other way.
You will be able to get many chords here that are impossible to get on a C6th tuning. And SOOOOO easy too.
I'll be glad to answer any questions on this subject, and yes, the guitar I'm playing everywhere now just has two knees on it. Bobbe
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Charlie McDonald
Member From: Lubbock, Texas, USA
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posted 03 December 2005 12:59 PM
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Bobbe, I know it's been said, but which two?
(Pre-emptive strike: somebody's going to say 'the right knee and the left knee.')[This message was edited by Charlie McDonald on 03 December 2005 at 01:01 PM.] |
Peter
Member From: Cape Town, South Africa
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posted 03 December 2005 01:23 PM
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 Read Bob Tuttle's post above. [This message was edited by Peter on 03 December 2005 at 01:30 PM.] |
Charlie McDonald
Member From: Lubbock, Texas, USA
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posted 03 December 2005 02:25 PM
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Doh! I knew that. Thanks, Peter. |
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