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Author
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Topic: Diminished Chord ?
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Larry Phleger
Member From: DuBois, PA
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posted 06 December 2005 11:24 AM
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Bob Hoffnar Recently posted a question regarding the use of augmented chords. What are some uses for the diminished chords using the E To F lever? Any feedback will be appreciated. |
John Egenes
Member From: Santa Fe, NM
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posted 06 December 2005 01:21 PM
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Like augmented chords, diminished chords are a great way to get from one chord to another, that is, to change keys or chords using ones that don't normally fit into the key you're in. There are 4 notes to a diminished chord, and they're a minor third (one and a half steps) apart from each other. So, if you've got a Cdim chord, you've got C-Eb-Gb-A notes. This means that this chord is also an EbDim, a GbDim, and an Adim chord (you can just invert the chord to get these....). Now, try this: just move ONE of those notes either up or down a half step: say, Eb to E. You can now make up ANY chord with the note: E in it, say E major, E minor, A minor, A major, C major, G major, G diminished... etc. It's a way to get from one chord to another. You could also change the C to B and get Bmaj, Emaj, etc.... any chord with a B in it. You can change any of the 4 notes. By the way, there are really only 3 diminished chords, and then they just become inversions of themselves. Same as augmenteds (there are 4 of them) You can use augmented chords exactly the same way. Like augmented chords, diminished chords aren't normally ones you land on and stay there. They're used as transitions to get to get from one chord to another. They're a really good way to change keys. |
Larry Hamilton
Member From: Amarillo, Texas, USA
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posted 06 December 2005 01:21 PM
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I use it a lot going from a I to a IIminor in the pedals down position. Nice passing chord. Clarification...F lever isn't used with pedals down, that is an Aug.------------------
Keep pickin', Larry |
Dave Mudgett
Member From: Central Pennsylvania, USA
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posted 06 December 2005 01:25 PM
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I usually use a diminished voicing as a passing chord to create tension, and consequently, chord motion and interest in a simple chord progression. One common example would be as a passing chord when moving from I to IIm (e.g., C to Dm7) - for example, C - C#dim - Dm7 creates motion and interest in an otherwise static I - IIm change. There are many other uses as a passing chord.Notewise, there are only three unique diminshed chords, apart from the ordering of the notes (or voicing), and they repeat every 3 frets. I'm not far from you - let me know if you ever get to lovely Happy Valley. Always happy to talk steel and music. I do visit my buddy Ken Drake up you way from time to time. |
Larry Phleger
Member From: DuBois, PA
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posted 06 December 2005 02:56 PM
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Thanks for the information. This really helps me see how some things I have been doing work, and gives me some ideas of other things to try. Dave. I have known Ken Drake for many years. We have jammed on several occasions. It's a small world. I'll give you a call some time. Maybe we can get together and share some ideas. |
David L. Donald
Member From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand
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posted 06 December 2005 08:17 PM
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Very often it is used between IV and V ( #IV) as a passing chord in jazzy blues
D9, D#dim, E9And also as the VII to I change
Bdim to C Also it's close cousin
minor7 b 5 is used similarly.
[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 06 December 2005 at 08:17 PM.]
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Ernie Pollock
Member From: Mt Savage, Md USA
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posted 07 December 2005 05:02 AM
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9 -8F - 6- 5 should give you a diminished chord.Ernie  ------------------
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Jim Eller
Member From: Kodak, TN USA
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posted 07 December 2005 08:15 AM
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Could some one please tab some example for the learning impaired like me?Thanks,
Jim |
Drew Howard
Member From: Mason, MI, U.S.A.
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posted 07 December 2005 08:47 AM
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It Came Upon a Midnight Clear---G-------------C---Bbdim-G-—C—G---- 1------------------------------------
2------------------------------------
3------------------------------------
4------------------------------------
5-----10^10A-----8A^8--5--3—--3A^3---
6------------10--8-----5--3—--3B^3---
7------------------------------------
8--10------------8-----5F-3---3------
9------------------------------------
10-----------------------------------
------------------
Drew Howard - website - Fessenden guitars, 70's Fender Twin, etc.
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Steve Knight
Member From: Arlington, Virginia, USA
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posted 07 December 2005 09:42 AM
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You'll also find a IV# diminished between the IV-to-I change in bar 6 of a 12-bar blues. As an example, take bars 5-8 in a jazzy version of the blues in the key of C: F(or F7) |F#dim. | C(or C7) | A(or A7) ---F---F#dim---C----A----
1------------------------
2------------------------
3------------------------
4------------------------
5--1-----1-----3A---5----
6--1-----1-----3B---5----
7------------------------
8--1-----1F----3----5----
9------------------------
10----------------------- I like that one because the bottom note climbs up from F, F#, G, A. SK |
Charles Turpin
Member From: Mexico, Missouri, USA
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posted 07 December 2005 10:57 AM
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There is so much i do with these diminish chords that I just like to have fun with them. But the trick is to know When to return to the normal playing. I call the dim chords the in- between chords cause i experiment so much with them that i put them inbetween everything i want to add a lot of spice to. Want to have a lot of fun with is to take the 5th and 6th pedals, and plant your foot on them then relearn your minor and major7th scales with Your foot down.On the C6th neck. Then if you want realy have some fun.While you are playing a major scale with the foot down raise your pedals as you are playing the major scale giving you chromatics of them notes.Each time you raise your pedal you are going to be returning to another key that goes with that dim you are playing. Remember that open your 5th pedal gives you a D9th tuning with a few extras and your 6th pedal gives you a F9th with some extras. WHen you put both of them down you are playing C------------------
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Larry Phleger
Member From: DuBois, PA
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posted 08 December 2005 06:10 AM
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Thanks everyone. This has really helped me put things in prospective. |
Drew Howard
Member From: Mason, MI, U.S.A.
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posted 09 December 2005 07:58 AM
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larry, If you don't have it, get Jimmy Day's "Steel and Strings" CD. The second half of the CD is all ballads, with tons of diminished slants (also achieved by an F lever). Great examples of diminshed chord usage all over the CD. "Please Help Me I'm Falling"F Gbdim Gm 5---8^8A^8^6^6A--
6---8B-----6^6---
7----------------
8---8------7^6---
cheers,
Drew
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Drew Howard - website - Fessenden guitars, 70's Fender Twin, etc.
[This message was edited by Drew Howard on 09 December 2005 at 07:59 AM.]
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John Steele
Member From: Renfrew, Ontario, Canada
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posted 09 December 2005 10:14 AM
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quote:
Now, try this: just move ONE of those notes either up or down a half step: say, Eb to E. You can now make up ANY chord with the note: E in it, say E major, E minor, A minor, A major, C major, G major, G diminished... etc.
John, could you elaborate on that a bit, because I'm not understanding what you're saying there.
There's no E natural in an Eb diminished scale.
I agree that you can lower any note in the voicing, and treat it as the root of a 7b9 chord, but I can't see the raising thing at all.
Thanks ! -John ------------------
www.ottawajazz.com |
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