Unfamiliar, yes - contemptuous, no. I've gotten emails from a few folks who have felt I have contempt for country music simply because I don't play it. That's silly. I've also heard from more that like seeing a different take on things so that the instrument isn't stagnated.

For about the 50th time - I have the utmost repect for country players who paved the road for those playing today...and for current players...of ALL styles.

The only contempt I feel is for those who are intolerant of players outside the "mainstream" - the "Garcia" debates kill me. Jerry's gone, and the one song players like to diss was played 30 years ago. Give it up, folks. And now it's Robert Randolph. Oh, brother. Let it GO, people!

Look - there's lots of music inside these machines, and plenty of types of machines, plus ways to let the music out. If you play country and love it, cool! If you play reggae and love it, cool! It doesn't matter WHAT you play, or how well. Own who you are and what you do, do it from the heart, and don't be forced into things you don't want to do because "that's the way (fill in the blank) did it".

Do it YOUR way. If you don't play country, you do NOT have to pay your dues playing it to earn the respect of other players, or to learn the instrument. If players say you do, that's a sad situation, and very limiting.

And to return to the actual topic - if you want to play 6-string pedal steel as an enhancement to your lapsteel playing - go ahead, and don't let ANYONE talk you out of it or tell you you have to approach it a different way, or with a different instrument. Anyone taking that tact dosn't understand where you're coming from.

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The idea of a 6 string model for guitarists making the transition to steel might seem like a good idea, but it’s only a matter of time before a new player who has one reads about some lick that requires more strings, and finds that their instrument won’t allow them to play it.

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How do I know? .. Last year I contacted all of the major league companies and asked them to custom make me a twin 8 with pedals, Money NO object
I was prepared to pay WHATEVER it cost, NO LIMIT.

NO ONE would do it !! just too busy with 10-12 string models.
Maybe because I'm rather insignificant as far as the major companies see it , I just don't know.
Enough on this particular matter, back to the crux of the post, a single six could be mass produced by my pal Ronnie Bennett.

If this concept was for this instrument to be used by standard guitar players to play rock and blues then would it not be just as viable to work on a copedent that started out with EADGBE and go from there rather than an open E chord. If you start with standard tuning all you have to do is engage one mechanic to raise the G to G# and the D to E and there is a nice E7 chord. You would now have the potential to engage two and possible three more mechanics to give you all the licks that rock/blues players would ever need.
The I to IV chord country sounding lick that you have with your copedent can be accomplished by dedicating one floor pedal to pull D to E and B to C. On standard guitar that would give you the sound of a G chord to a C chord and when that is moved up to fret 7, there is your E to A chord. Also you could have another mechanic to raise B to C# and the already raised G# to A and there would be the more familiar I to IV raise on your tuning.

Another change that is important is to lower the D to Db. That gives you the 9 chord that all rock blues players use so much and then all you have to do is raise the B to C and there is the #9 chord.

What are your thoughts on starting out with the standard guitar tuning rather than a E chord for the tuning.

[This message was edited by Bill Hatcher on 22 February 2006 at 06:48 AM.]

One of my stock rock and roll tricks (inspired BTW by something Hendrix did) is to turn on the distortion and play the 1st string and immediately play the 4th and step on the C pedal, so the note on the 4th string meshes into a unison with the note on first. I then use the bar to play whatever melodic or scale pateren I want, any repeat the technique with every bar movement. (Sometimes it's necessary to kick in the E-F knee lever and start with a minor second. It depends on the individual note.)

This could not be done on a 6 stringed instrument. I'm sure that If I thought about it, I'd find all sorts of similar examples.

[This message was edited by Mike Perlowin on 22 February 2006 at 08:15 AM.]

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One of my stock rock and roll tricks (inspired BTW by something Hendrix did) is to turn on the distortion...

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Bill Hatcher: I would have to conduct a focus group to verify your hypothesis. To me, starting from a major chord is very intuitive. I think that most guitar players with an interest in slide/steel are familiar with the open E tuning. Even if they aren't, learning pedal steel from the starting point of Open E prepares them should they ever want to expand 10 or 12 string realms. The pedals and levers have a direct 1-to-1 correspondence with the standard E9th.

I read a post here that talked about Tom Morrell having a 12 string MSA guitar set up with standard EADGBE in the middle of it...hhhhhmmmmm......I got to thinking--always dangerous.

So I am taking a 10 string E9 neck and tuning it from the top:
F#
Eb
G#
E
B
G
D
A
E
B

You can see that just by raising the G to G# with say a verticle knee, you now have the top 6 strings of an E9 tuning with the standard A,B pedal and a couple of knees you can play plenty of E9 stuff.
You can even play Mikes cool Hendrix/Green Eyed Lady lick!! Other pulls on the EADGBE strings give the potential for all the familiar rock/blues stuff.

I had worked with this tuning on a D10 guitar, but I upgraded the guitar and swapped the old one back to E9/C6 and sold it---one of the advantages of using a 10 string PSG instead of trying to find a 6 string PSG. Right now I have the new instrument taken apart for a total cleaning and when it is back together I will work on this some more. I really think that a dedicated standard "underarm" guitarist who just wanted to dabble at some pedal steel could play this tuning in about 10 minutes (providing he already had some fingerpicking chops) and would be much more inclined to make the transition to a full E9 set up if his interests proceeded.

Just my own ramblings/experimenting, your mileage may vary.

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The notion that distortion is necessary to play rock steel is totally bogus,

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And yet, You've used it yourself on occasion.

I agree that its not necessary. But that doesn't mean it's not occasionally useful, or that it should never be used. It's a tool to be used when it is appropriate to do so.

Chromatic strings are and pedal are also tools. The more you have at your disposal, the options you have. Why limit those options?

I agree that the bass strings are very effective tools for playing rock. On my U-12 I have changes on those strings for just that reason. Again, I have the option of getting down into that register when I choose to do so.

Donny, to take your analogy even further, in 1960, an itenerent blues singer named Eddie Jones recorded some incredible Mississippi blues slide stuff with a homemade steel guitar like instrument that had only one string. But as good as he was, he couldn't play chords or do many of the things a guitarist playing in a similar style could.

hhhmmmmm.......come to think of it, you could have one mechanic pull you back to standard tuning from the beloved E chord also!!!....now I am debating myself!!

I hope I'm not getting off the topic too much, but I've been reading for several days and thought I'd try to give you some encouragement that you can not make a "bad" decision here nomatter what you did. Just be ready to work on it if you buy something old like this. Even that can have it's value in learning about how these things work.

These look like fun too... http://bigsbypalmpedal.com/

Good luck in whatever you decide.

Bob P.

[This message was edited by Robert Porri on 22 February 2006 at 03:38 PM.]

I saw a thread somewhere, and I can't find it for reference, about the pedal guitar being invented in Nashville in 1954. OOPS, I don't think so. I visited Alvino Rey in 1948 in his home and I distinctly remember his having not one but 4 steels with pedals. I think perhaps someone made an honest error. BTW, Alvino was working on a new release of another CD even before he passed, and he was past 90 years.
Too I can remember having a Fender Dual Custom drilled in the "ashtray" with a "clothes hangar" type affair attached to two barn hinges that pulled the B to C# and the G# to A in 1952. The adjustment was made with a turnbuckle from a screen door aligner rod. There were also several Fenders converted to a pull-release action during that same time frame.

I still use my non-pedal background, even when playing pedal steel. I think with my tuning it sounds better to "move the bar".

Bobby, you are correct. You can strum power chords on a 6 string instrument like the one you describe, and you can't strum them on a standard pedal steel guitar. You can still play them if you have the bass strings, but you have to use grips, and it doesn't sound quite the same. I feel it's not worth sacrificing all that can be done with standard tunings, but to get a slight difference in the way those chords sound.

Check out the John Hughey Be Good thread, where he does his Chuck Berry imitation. Check out Joe Wrights rock work, or any of Joe Goldmarks wonderful CDs. (They're all great, but I recommend "All Over The Road" on which he plays songs by Hendrix and Zappa.) Billy Phelps is another master of rock and roll steel, (Billy Phelps is a master of the steel, period) but I don't know whether or not he has recorded any examples of his rock style.

Just stay with the lap. This is nuts. I think about Paul Franklin playing that lap on top of his pedal steel in the players video.

Get the New Jerry Douglas CD. He does more with six strings than most of us will ever do with 10 or 12. Or, listem to David Lindley.

If your playing isn't silky-smooth and filled with emotion, and your intonation near perfect, I could care less what 9-note complex chord you're hitting. We've all got only so much time to learn, and everything we add just makes the process more difficult.

[This message was edited by HowardR on 24 February 2006 at 06:37 AM.]

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