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Author
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Topic: Emmons question
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Cliff Kane
Member From: Long Beach, CA
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posted 26 April 2006 09:52 AM
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I'm going to be checking out an Emmons D-10, but I know very little about Emmons (I currently play a Sho-Bud LDG). I'm curious about a few things: The guitar I am interested in is a '74 D-10, push-pull, wooden body with metal necks. Is this a good year for these guitars? For checking out an Emmons like this, what should I look for, or look out for? Do these particular incarnations of this guitar have any quirks or attributes that I should be aware of? Is the wood body/metal neck configuration good, or is a mica body better?
My impression is that the really choice push-pulls are from the ‘60’s, but how are the ‘74’s? Also, when did Buddy Emmons leave the Emmons guitar company, and were there significant changes in the guitars with the transition? I’ve been reading the past posts on Emmons, but any responses to these questions are greatly appreciated. Thank you!
Cliff
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Jim Eaton
Member From: Santa Susana, Ca
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posted 26 April 2006 10:11 AM
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I have a 75PP D10 wood body, wood neck that I love and just picked up a 72-74 SD-12PP Black Mica guitar, so I guess I like that vintage Emmons just fine!
JE:-)> |
A. J. Schobert
Member From: Cincinnati OHIO WHO DEY???
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posted 26 April 2006 10:13 AM
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My only suggestion is see the guitar before you buy it! and from the sounds of it you are. |
Cliff Kane
Member From: Long Beach, CA
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posted 26 April 2006 10:40 AM
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Thanks, guys. Yes, I do have a chance to see it. I want to get informed before I go over there, and want to get a good one as I'll most likely have to sell off some other beloved gear to buy it, if it's a good one. |
Hook Moore
Member From: South Charleston,West Virginia
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posted 26 April 2006 10:41 AM
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Cliff, early and mid 70s are great guitars and some of the best sounding guitars ever built.
Some will say there is a little tone differnce from a mica to a wood finish but both sound great and its a matter of which you like best.
Hook------------------
www.HookMoore.com
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Cliff Kane
Member From: Long Beach, CA
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posted 26 April 2006 12:58 PM
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Thanks, Hook. Your '74 looks nice! It doesn't sound like there's too much too worry about, then, besides the obvious concerns of a used instrument.
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Tony Prior
Member From: Charlotte NC
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posted 26 April 2006 01:02 PM
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Excellent Steel..Just be sure that you do want a PUSH PULL system rather than an ALL PULL system.Nobody would ever agrue that a Push Pull sounds great..and they also would not argue that an ALL PULL system is a heck of a lot more user friendly. good luck t |
Marlin Smoot
Member From: Atlanta,Georgia, USA
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posted 26 April 2006 01:08 PM
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I have a 1974 D-10 Wood body and Wood neck.
I've had it since 1983 and I would never give it up. I've never had any problem with it. Great Emmons tone. Good luck. |
Donny Hinson
Member From: Balto., Md. U.S.A.
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posted 26 April 2006 01:24 PM
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I own one, and think they have a nice sound, but certainly not better than a lot of guitars made today. I don't play mine much, due to all of it's inherent mechanical "quirks". As Tony has already alluded, they're far from an ideal guitar, and I wouldn't recommend them to any beginner, or anyone who is "mechanically challenged". They were once the "gold standard" for steels, but frankly, most pros have abandoned them for something better. If you're sure that's what you want...make sure the tuning screws line up with the holes in the end-plate! (It's really a challenge to and get a tuning wrench in them if they don't.) Also, check for wear in the pedal pivots. (Excess wear causes a lot of noise.) They also have a lot of plated (non stainless) steel parts, so rust can also be a problem on some older models. |
Charles Dempsey
Member From: The Cradle of the Stars.
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posted 26 April 2006 02:12 PM
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I would check under the hood to make sure you don't have any weird replacement hardware, and that there are enough swivels to carry the rods correctly. If there's something you don't like about the setup (and you're not comfortable working on it) it may be difficult to get it changed. OTOH, that probably won't be a problem in Long Beach).And check for dog fur in the changer  . Charlie |
Tom Quinn
Member From: Sacramento
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posted 26 April 2006 06:15 PM
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I would respectfully disagree with Donny. I think the old push/pulls are the best sounding guitars, period. Properly setup, they stay in tune and perform perfectly.They are like Harleys -- you either get it or you don't... :- ) Another comparison would be with a vintage Les Paul, copied but never equalled... One caveat -- be very careful who you buy it from. If it is a private sale from someone who bought the guitar new or near new, you are probably okay.[This message was edited by Tom Quinn on 26 April 2006 at 06:15 PM.] |
Nick Reed
Member From: Springfield, TN
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posted 26 April 2006 08:55 PM
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Cliff,
Don't let Donny's comments turn you off to getting a Emmons P/P. These are the best sounding guitars that have ever been built and as an investment they keep going up in value every year. Most other maunfacturers have a quest to duplicate the classic Emmons P/P sound. If you study the P/P changer system diagram, you'll probably like it better once you get used to it.
http://www.steelguitar.com//steelmap/maptop/pp_raise.htm
I have both P/P's and A/P's so I know what it is involved underneath the guitar. Good Luck on your decision. Nick
My 2 D-10 Emmons P/P's
 [This message was edited by Nick Reed on 26 April 2006 at 08:59 PM.]
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Cliff Kane
Member From: Long Beach, CA
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posted 26 April 2006 11:01 PM
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Thanks for this great info. I really appreciate hearing about what to check for in terms of worn parts and potential problems. This is a lot of what I am concerned about, especially as I'm a Emmons novice. When I had one, I used to do the valves on my VW every 1,500 miles, so I'm not put off by the idea of mechanical TLC, so long as I'm not buying a can of worms.
BTW, here are some pictures of the guitar in question. I've been looking at all the photos I can find of other Emmons with wood bodies, and none of them really look like this one. The photos I've seen of other guitars have a different trim graphic: usually it's a pattern of little squares in different colors, where this one has a single line zig-zag pattern. Also the wood grain on this one looks rather plain and devoide of the birds-eye grain I've seen on the other Emmons wood bodies....does this look like a standard Emmons pro-level guitar, or does it look like a lower end model? Was there a student level D-10, or were all the D-10's pro-level guitars? Any thoughts from the photos? I'll probably have a chance to check it out this Saturday.
Thanks again for your help!
   [This message was edited by Cliff Kane on 26 April 2006 at 11:11 PM.] |
Skip Edwards
Member From: LA,CA
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posted 26 April 2006 11:52 PM
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Looks like a nice gtr.
Let's put it this way....
If you don't buy that guitar, you can be pretty sure there won't be a shortage of other people wanting it...
And if I hadn't picked up a nice '74 p/p a few months ago, I'd probably be one of them.Emmons did make a student model, but this one is a pro model all the way. They used the zig-zag inlay for awhile,
and some gtrs have more birds-eyes than others, but this is not a low-end model. It might need some tweaking and adjustment, and the
p/u's might need replacing (they might be microphonic from age - mine were), but if you're looking for a p/p Emmons, I'd say you found one.
[This message was edited by Skip Edwards on 26 April 2006 at 11:57 PM.] [This message was edited by Skip Edwards on 26 April 2006 at 11:59 PM.] |
Jay Ganz
Member From: Out Behind The Barn
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posted 27 April 2006 06:16 AM
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Looks like it might've been refinished at some
point. If it was originally a natural finish,
it should be a bit more of a golden yellow color
with some finish checking here & there. Hard
to say for sure without seeing it in person.
That may or may not make a difference to you
depending on the asking price. |
Rick Johnson
Member From: Wheelwright, Ky USA
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posted 27 April 2006 08:43 AM
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Its hard to beat these old P/P's
www.rickjohnsoncabs.com [This message was edited by Rick Johnson on 27 April 2006 at 08:56 AM.] [This message was edited by Rick Johnson on 27 April 2006 at 08:59 AM.] |
Charles Dempsey
Member From: The Cradle of the Stars.
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posted 27 April 2006 09:43 AM
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Nice ax. Wear underneath looks consistent with age. The P2 3d string raise rod dives down under the other raise rods for some reason, and there's something odd about the P9 bellcrank closest to the front apron. Maybe the setscrew has come loose. No LKV, but it's not difficult to add one. 9 pedals is good. And I don't see any dog fur in the changer!If you're comfortable with VW valve setting then working on a pp shouldn't present any difficulties once you get the theory down. Charlie[This message was edited by Charles Dempsey on 27 April 2006 at 10:50 AM.] |
Skip Edwards
Member From: LA,CA
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posted 27 April 2006 10:29 AM
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I think I see what you're talking about with the 9th pedal bellcrank. Maybe that bellcrank on the E9 neck - which doesn't seem to have a collar - is being used as a rod guide. My p/p has a few of those underneath.
The 9th pedal appears to be doing it's work on the back neck. |
Billy Carr
Member From: Seminary, Mississippi USA
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posted 27 April 2006 11:22 AM
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The old p/p's are great guitars. I've been playing the all pull system for so long until it's hard for me to get used to a p/p. In my opinion, there is a difference in the feel of the two tuning systems. Either system is fine as long as you know how to set them. I just prefer the all pull. |
Cliff Kane
Member From: Long Beach, CA
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posted 27 April 2006 03:27 PM
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Thanks again for this great additional info! Rick, that's a beautiful guitar, great picture. I've got more knowledge under my belt for when I check it out. asking price is $1,750, which seems like a deal, if it's the real deal. Do the changers look right for this year and configuration? [This message was edited by Cliff Kane on 27 April 2006 at 03:29 PM.]
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Stephen Gambrell
Member From: Ware Shoals, South Carolina, USA
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posted 27 April 2006 03:35 PM
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For 1750, don't ask questions---Just BUY it, quick like!! Beautiful guitar! |
Tony Prior
Member From: Charlotte NC
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posted 27 April 2006 04:14 PM
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just to make it clear, neither I or Donny are dissing these fine Steels...But at the same time it is prudent to advise early on owners that the PPulls can be quirky..and the buyer should be educated..just like buying a Classic 'Vette... But this Steel for $1750 is a no brainer....
[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 27 April 2006 at 04:15 PM.]
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Charles Dempsey
Member From: The Cradle of the Stars.
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posted 28 April 2006 10:15 AM
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$1750.00? Flip it upside down and wiggle the legs to make sure the end plates aren't busted out, and then check the threads in the leg sockets. If all is well pay the man and haul cookies before he comes to his senses.Charlie |
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