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Author
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Topic: How does a "sitar" bar work ?
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John Lockney
Member From: New Market, Maryland, USA
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posted 03 June 2006 05:12 PM
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I only found a few mentions of sitar bars in a Forum search. I was wondering how it works and found a picture of one here: http://www.steelguitar.net/bars.html I was expecting a series of "rollers" that would rattle as you held the bar just barely touching the strings... All that sound comes from just a flat edge ? Does it require an incredible amount of skill and practice to hold the bar just exactly perfect to get that sound, or is it relatively easy ?
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Cliff Kane
Member From: Long Beach, CA
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posted 03 June 2006 05:32 PM
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The strings buzz against the flat part of the bar.....buzzzooooiiiiinggg........kind of suggesting the buzzy sond of drone strings. I think there's a John Prine song ("Sam Stone"?) with sitar bar steel guitar. |
John Lockney
Member From: New Market, Maryland, USA
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posted 03 June 2006 06:34 PM
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Stephen Leblanc posted a while ago that his dad, Leo Leblanc, used a 1/2" square bar on "Sam Stone".
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/002351.html I guess I was wondering if you have to hold the bar VERY lightly above the strings to get it to buzz, if you turn it to use just one knife-edge of the flat surface, or if you let the full flat edge set on the strings with normal pressure. I don’t understand why a flat surface would make a sitar-like noise. It seems like the front-edge of the flat surface would “fret” the string. |
Mike Perlowin
Member From: Los Angeles CA
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posted 03 June 2006 06:40 PM
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I can't tell you how or why it works, only that it does. And you don't have to hold the bar above the strings. Just apply the same pressure you normally do. I have a Dunlop sitar bar, and I'm very happy with it. ------------------
My web site
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Greg Cutshaw
Member From: Corry, PA, USA
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posted 03 June 2006 07:07 PM
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Here's 3 pics of my Dunlop sitar bar. Any bar with a flat edge machined into it should work fine. Diameter is 1.0" and length is 3.75". It's pretty heavy so maybe that helps keep it flat against the strings. 
 Greg 
Greg's Web Page
MSA/Steel King Sounds
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Greg Cutshaw
Member From: Corry, PA, USA
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posted 03 June 2006 07:55 PM
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Update: Click on MSA/Steel King sounds above at my web site and on that page click on "Sitar". Sitar is a one minute clip of some sitar sounds I just recorded which should give you an idea of what the sitar bar sounds like.Greg |
John Lockney
Member From: New Market, Maryland, USA
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posted 03 June 2006 08:18 PM
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It makes a sound like the Beatles ? Thanks for the recording and the pictures, Greg!----------------------------------------
Edited to move my inquiry about finding a used one over to WTB.
[This message was edited by John Lockney on 04 June 2006 at 08:39 AM.] |
Calvin Walley
Member From: colorado city colorado, USA
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posted 03 June 2006 08:25 PM
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not knocking your playing but... i could only make it thru about 1/2 of if before i had to click off it.. that thing sounds awful..think i will stick with my trusty Dunlopcalvin |
Steve English
Member From: Tucson, Arizona
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posted 03 June 2006 09:16 PM
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Great pictures, playing, and tone! |
David Mason
Member From: Cambridge, MD, USA
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posted 04 June 2006 01:53 AM
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You can get the same sound with a much greater degree of control and shading by playing out of an extreme forward-slant position. The sitar bars apply the same amount of flat edge to every note no matter where it is on the neck, but by slanting the bar yourself you can control the tone. Start by holding the bar completely parallel to a string, and work backwards. |
John Billings
Member From: Northfield Center, Ohio, USA
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posted 04 June 2006 08:30 AM
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Made my own bar once when I was workin' in a machine shop. Put a flat on it. Works great if you can stand the sound! There's another type that is a flat bar. like some of the old Oahu-style bars. The playing edge has two surfaces that are machined diagonally from front, high-string, corner to the back, low-string corner. It also works well. Don't remember who makes it.[This message was edited by John Billings on 04 June 2006 at 08:33 AM.] |
Jim Sliff
Member From: Hermosa Beach California, USA
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posted 04 June 2006 08:36 AM
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I really like the sound of the sitar bars - when I had my Fender student model years ago (A Shobud Maverick covered in black tolex) I hated the guitar so much that I sold the whole mess, including the bar...not realizing until years later what that weird flat spot was for. I thought it was a finger rest. One of these days I'll have to get one.Duh. |
John Lockney
Member From: New Market, Maryland, USA
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posted 04 June 2006 08:47 AM
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Thanks for the info. I will probably spend 99% of my time trying to NOT make that sound but, I'd like to find a used one and give it a try. I have a related post over in WTB:
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum1/HTML/003536.html
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Brett Day
Member From: Greer, SC, USA
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posted 04 June 2006 09:29 AM
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Paul Franklin uses a sitar bar on Lee Ann Womack's song "Why They Call It Fallin'". Brett, Emmons S-10, Morrell lapsteel, GFI Ultra D-10 |
Tony Dingus
Member From: Kingsport, Tennessee, USA
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posted 05 June 2006 06:02 PM
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I use a 3/8" thick piece of aluminum for a sitar bar. I found out that's what PF uses, (maybe not the same thickness)and works great for me.Tony |
ebb
Member From: nj
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posted 05 June 2006 06:30 PM
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mooney used this effect also. all my bars are of this type as i find the flat surface on top for regular playing helps my control. also you can lay it flat down side on your guitar without worrying about it rolling onto the floor |
Chick Donner
Member From: North Ridgeville, OH USA
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posted 05 June 2006 07:58 PM
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Duane Marrs made mine for me upstairs at the old ShoBud store shop; it's as fl;at bar with .0008 or so milled off about a 1/8 section of the flat side. The strings "buzz" where the metal is milled out.I still use mine, usually to emulate steel drum on that Kenny Chesney song. |
David Mason
Member From: Cambridge, MD, USA
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posted 06 June 2006 02:29 AM
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I like using a ping-pong ball for steel drum sounds - lock up the cat though, it'll drive him nuts. HA HA! Hook up an envelope follower, drive yourself nuts. |
Adrienne Clasky
Member From: Florida, USA
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posted 06 June 2006 02:17 PM
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David, do you hold the pingpong ball on the strings or bounce it? |
David Mason
Member From: Cambridge, MD, USA
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posted 06 June 2006 02:23 PM
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Hold the ball on the strings just like a bar and pick with your right hand. It's like the broomstick or PVC pipe trick, only even more so. |
Gabriel Stutz
Member From: Chicago, USA
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posted 06 June 2006 02:37 PM
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I'm a fan of mallets on the strings. It creates a really nice ambient chordal sound when you do a roll. |
Russ Wever
Member From: San Diego, California
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posted 19 June 2006 03:13 AM
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. . . how 'bout it, John?
 [This message was edited by Russ Wever on 19 June 2006 at 03:18 AM.] |
Kenny Davis
Member From: Great State of Oklahoma
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posted 19 June 2006 07:12 PM
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I've got one, Russ...I think Jim Johnson (Conway's pilot in the '70's)was responsible for the Hughey sitar bar. If I remember correctly, the late Doug Campbell might have worked with Jim on the design or manufacture. With Conway living in Oklahoma back then, I know Jim was here quite a lot, and Doug was involved with making a steel guitar for a short time. I met Jim through Doug and bought the bar from them. |
Theresa Galbraith
Member From: Goodlettsville,Tn. USA
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posted 21 June 2006 11:54 AM
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Brett,
Paul also used the Franklin Sitar Bar on "I Hope You Dance" and "Remember Me" by Tim & Faith.I can't answer how it works, but it has a great sound. |
James Cann
Member From: Phoenix, AZ (heart still in Boston)
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posted 21 June 2006 04:24 PM
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quote:
. . . how 'bout it, John?
How about it, indeed, and only $14.95! Better get two![This message was edited by James Cann on 21 June 2006 at 04:27 PM.] |
Russ Wever
Member From: San Diego, California
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posted 21 June 2006 07:46 PM
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. . . of course those are '1970's dollars' . . . in the prior millenium.Prolly be $75 today, huh . . . ~Russ |
Chris Lasher
Member From: Athens, Georgia, USA
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posted 21 June 2006 07:52 PM
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Is this (click me) a sitar bar on LeAnn Rimes' "Something's Gotta Give"? There's no electric sitar in the credits, but Dan Dugmore is on steel, and Dan Huff, JT Corenflos, and Tom Bokuvac are on the guitar. There's also a keyboard, but it doesn't sound like it came from a keyboard synth. It kinda sounds like a fretted instrument during the slide up at the very beginning. Any thoughts?[This message was edited by Chris Lasher on 21 June 2006 at 07:53 PM.] |
Theresa Galbraith
Member From: Goodlettsville,Tn. USA
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posted 23 June 2006 05:39 AM
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Chris,
I've wondered the same thing. I'll try to find out for you. 
I like the sound! |
Bryan Daste
Member From: Portland, Oregon, USA
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posted 08 November 2006 01:30 AM
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Your posts inspired me to try a few things I had lying around in place of my bar:
 Here are some sound clips. In the first one, I used an extra knee lever from my new Sierra D-10 (new to me, but it's a 1980) to emulate a sitar sound. I used the metal side flat against the strings. Sounds pretty sitar-ish to me!
http://home.comcast.net/~daste/pics/BCD_Sitar-KneeLever.mp3 Then I tried a plastic ink pen, and I got a banjo-like tone from it. However, the pen is so thin it's hard to control.
http://home.comcast.net/~daste/pics/BCD_Banjo-InkPen.mp3 Enjoy! Anyone else out there with more bar-substitution ideas?
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Donny Hinson
Member From: Balto., Md. U.S.A.
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posted 08 November 2006 05:06 AM
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quote:
I don’t understand why a flat surface would make a sitar-like noise. It seems like the front-edge of the flat surface would “fret” the string.
When the string vibrates, it alternately contacts the front and back edges of the flat surface on the bar. The same thing happens on a straight guitar when the frets are worn, or the action is set too low. The vibrating string alternately contacts two different frets, giving a buzzing/whining sound. |
Mike Black
Member From: New Mexico, USA
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posted 09 November 2006 06:09 AM
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I have the Emmons version of this type of bar. I'd like to trade it for a ZB 10 string bar. Hollow with ZB stamped in the nose, kinda light. emil me if you've got one to trade or sell. |
Jay Fagerlie
Member From: Lotus, California, USA
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posted 09 November 2006 06:45 AM
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My friend and sometimes teacher Pete Grant showed me how to get a sitar effect with any bar.
Hold the bar parallel with the string you are playing. It is a little tricky to get the intonation right, but for quick single string work, it sounds great.
Jay |
Alan F. Brookes
Member From: Brummy living in California, USA
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posted 09 November 2006 06:13 PM
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If you want a sitar sound, why not buy a sitar ?I like my steel guitar to sound like a steel guitar. |
Bobby Lee
Sysop From: Cloverdale, North California, USA
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posted 09 November 2006 11:17 PM
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How does a "sitar" bar work?
Not very well, in my opinion. |
Greg Cutshaw
Member From: Corry, PA, USA
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posted 12 November 2006 11:00 AM
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Listen to the middle sound bite by clicking on Hear It! at here . With some practice you could do some pretty neat sounds with a sitar bar. Etude for sitar?Greg
[This message was edited by Greg Cutshaw on 12 November 2006 at 11:01 AM.] |
Duane Reese
Member From: Salt Lake County, Utah
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posted 12 November 2006 02:15 PM
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Sounds like a sitar bar on "Flying", on Joe Goldmark's Steelin' the Beatles album, eh? |
John Lockney
Member From: New Market, Maryland, USA
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posted 01 December 2006 05:10 PM
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It seems not to matter whether or not you mute behind the bar. (It might improve the sound to let it ring but muting behind the bar does not eliminate the sitar sound) Also, it seems to sound better when I exert slight pressure "behind" the bar to open-up the space between the bar and the strings on the side towards the picks. On the side farthest from the picks the string seems to make solid contact to "fret" the note. The sitar buzzing sound seems to come from the strings repeatedly vibrating against the flat surface. -- I bet it would still work if only the "front" side of the bar was flat. (the side closest to the picks). And, thanks for the idea Greg, I am working on making one. (disclaimer: I am currently experimenting with a long, skinny lug-nut)
[This message was edited by John Lockney on 01 December 2006 at 05:22 PM.]
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Robert Leaman
Member From: Murphy, North Carolina, USA
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posted 02 December 2006 02:42 PM
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I had an Emmons sitar bar. The only good thing about it was the money I got when I sold it. I tried it for about 2 minutes and I didn't like it. It caused distortion like all other effects units and I dislike distortion particular when I hear a Hawaiian or pedal steel guitar. If you like distortion (noise), buy a cheap amp or add some effects trash to an expensive amplifier. Distortion is easy to attain, purity of tone is elusive. |
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