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Author
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Topic: Tone and Sustain Mod
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Curt Langston
Member From: ***In the shadows of Tulsa at Bixby, USA***
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posted 01 November 2006 08:23 AM
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quote:
Both Eddie and Dale are exceptionally fine musicians, who I am sure if they say they can hear a difference in their guitars, then there is indeed a difference.
Ok then. Why won't they tell us about the alledge "mod" then?......Surely they can see what has been done to their guitar. I'm sure they are fine musicians. Thats not the point. Carter calls their upgrade "BCT". For Body Contact Technology. You can understand what they are talking about, just by the acronym. Carter does not seem to be losing any business. I don't hear of anyone but Carter offering to upgrade their guitars with BCT. Why the big mystery?
quote:
Actually, it seems somewhat offensive to me that you would suggest they would be so gullible as to not really be able to tell a difference in the sound of their very own guitars, and are simply just imagining it.
offensive
Why?............ Like I said before, the power of suggestion is big business in the marketing world today. Ever watch an infomercial? I've actually ordered "Coral Calcium" by Bob Barefoot from Okinawa before, only to find out later that minerals and vitamins need to be chelated for maximum absorption. I WANT A PICTURE OF THIS MOD! I don't think I'm the only one either.............
[This message was edited by Curt Langston on 01 November 2006 at 08:33 AM.] |
Lem Smith
Member From: Fulton, MS. U.S.A.
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posted 01 November 2006 08:50 AM
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I don't see Carter putting out the exact specs and diagrams of their BCT either. Many things are trade secrets, and not readily available for public knowledge. I would imagine, for example, that if you were to ask the Coca~Cola folks their exact ingredients and measurements, you'd most likely not get the info you wanted.Why offensive? Because you basically said they either didn't have the ability, or weren't intelligent enough to know whether there actually was a difference in their guitars after they had the modification done to them. If I sent the Sho~Bud that I play to someone, and they did any kind of change to it, I can assure you I'd know it as soon as I sat down at it, be it good, bad or whatever. I am neither recommending, nor speaking against Tommy's modification. I have no personal experience with it either way, but I do know that Dale and Eddie are both good enough musicians that they know what sounds good and what doesn't, and neither one of them would intentionally stir anyone wrong. |
Curt Langston
Member From: ***In the shadows of Tulsa at Bixby, USA***
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posted 01 November 2006 09:30 AM
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Because you basically said they either didn't have the ability, or weren't intelligent enough to know whether there actually was a difference in their guitars after they had the modification done to them.
No, I said the power of suggestion is big business. And it is.
quote:
If I sent the Sho~Bud that I play to someone, and they did any kind of change to it, I can assure you I'd know it as soon as I sat down at it, be it good, bad or whatever.
Really?....I propose that if they did not do anything to it, you might actually believe they did. And believe it sounds better! I would wager that if you sent a guitar to any of the top builders, and asked them to install a tone mod to it, they could do absolutely nothing to the guitar, and a great many people would believe that it sounds better. Just because you told them that it supposedly had the _____ mod done to it! (fill in the blank with your favorite builder or famous person) Psychology. "My guitar has the matchbook behind the fingers mod" "It only cost me 129.00 plus shipping!" [This message was edited by Curt Langston on 01 November 2006 at 09:41 AM.] |
Bobby Lee
Sysop From: Cloverdale, North California, USA
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posted 01 November 2006 10:39 AM
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I don't see Carter putting out the exact specs and diagrams of their BCT either.
Actually they did, in their patent application which was granted in 1999. |
tbhenry
Member From: Chattanooga /USA
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posted 01 November 2006 03:19 PM
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Ok Tommy give us the exact specs just like Carter did with BCT and we can all evaluate your claims!! Then if we want you to modify our guitars we will know exactly what you are doing, and we can pay you for your work. [This message was edited by tbhenry on 01 November 2006 at 03:22 PM.] |
Dale Stacy
Member From: Pontotoc, Ms. U.S.A.
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posted 01 November 2006 04:00 PM
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The intentions of TB Henry and Langston are to have this thread closed as in the past. As stated earlier, the forum is for players who love steelguitar and want to share new ideas. The best thing each of us can do is ignore their comments and use this forum for promoting our instrument.
Time is one Tommy's side, because that will just allow more players an opportunity to hear what we are hearing and experiencing.
I love my new tone and would't think of having to go back to my old sound.
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Dale Stacy
Member From: Pontotoc, Ms. U.S.A.
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posted 01 November 2006 04:17 PM
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I don't think I am imagining when I make this assumption. It is very evident that the intention of TB Henry and Curt Langston is to have this thread closed. Neither has ever made one positive or openminded comment on this topic.
I have ignored and will continue to ignore such negative comments and advise all to do so.
This forum is a great tool for sharing ideas and promoting steelguitar which is the instrument we all love so much. I'm not going to argue with anyone here but I do know that in time others will hopefully have the opportunity to hear and experience what a very few of us have already experienced.
Last I will say , that I would not think of going back to the tone I once played.
Thanks to all of you who have remained openminded and want to see new ideas and things to help promote the steelguitar.
Now let's all get back to woodsheddin and when we learn some good to share, post it on the forum. |
Mike Wheeler
Member From: Columbus, Ohio, USA
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posted 01 November 2006 04:33 PM
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Well said, Dale. Thanks. |
Curt Langston
Member From: ***In the shadows of Tulsa at Bixby, USA***
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posted 01 November 2006 05:10 PM
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Well said, Mike. Thanks. quote:
The people that use Tommy will tell
you that his work is non-invasive and that
he is not out to do any damage to any builder's reputation.
non-invasive
Maybe it just involves "buffing" the fingers.........
That would be non-invasive.
quote:
It is very evident that the intention of TB Henry and Curt Langston is to have this thread closed. Neither has ever made one positive or openminded comment on this topic.
Not true at all. My INTENTION is to find out what this so-called "mod" is all about. I do not want this thread closed, why would I? But, I do not like mysterious "smoke and mirror" illusions either. I would like to find out if there is any truth to these claims, and thats all. If the claims are true, then lets see them. Whats wrong with that? quote:
I love my new tone and would't think of having to go back to my old sound.
Wow! Dale, can you tell us about this mysterious "mod"? I guess the pedal steel builders of the world have a lot to learn from Tommy then.
I wonder how they managed without his mod all these years?
Somebody post a pic of this mod![This message was edited by Curt Langston on 01 November 2006 at 05:34 PM.] |
Lem Smith
Member From: Fulton, MS. U.S.A.
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posted 01 November 2006 06:05 PM
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I guess the pedal steel builders of the world have a lot to learn from Tommy then.I wonder how they managed without his mod all these years?
We also managed to survive for years without carbon fiber steel bodies, triple raise/lower changers, solid state amps, modular pickups, electronic volume pedals, and even "regular" pedals on steel guitars, but isn't it nice that they are there now?You make it sound like there is absolutely no room for improvement on anything. It's a good thing the guitar builders and also those who designed the other items that we now take for granted, didn't share your opinion. |
Curt Langston
Member From: ***In the shadows of Tulsa at Bixby, USA***
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posted 01 November 2006 06:14 PM
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quote:
You make it sound like there is absolutely no room for improvement on anything.
I believe there is room for innovative ideas.
So, lets see this new "mod".What harm can be done by showing and telling? Let us all see and learn together. My problem is not so much with the "mod" per se, but all the secrecy that enshrouds it. Even if it turns out to be nothing more than a popsicle stick making contact with the fingers, I want to see it. Someone take a pic of this "mod" and post it! |
Mitch Ellis
Member From: Mississippi, USA
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posted 01 November 2006 06:53 PM
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I have no idea what this mod is, but it has been sugested that it might be the adjusting of screw's, bolt's ect. If that is what Tommy does, he may very well be on to something. Not long ago, I had to take the keyhead off of my SD10. when I put it back on and played it, it sounded "thin". It didn't seem to sound as "clear" and had lost some sustain. Thinking that my little girl had "adjusted  " my amp, I checked the setting's. The amp had not been touched. Two bolt's and one screw holds the keyhead in place. I loosened each 1/2 turn, and the tone and sustain came back. I had tightened the keyhead too tight. I know it sounds far-fetched, but it's true. whatever Tommy does to a steel, if it improves the tone, and makes the owner happy and enjoy playing more, then I wish him success.
Mitch |
Al Terhune
Member From: Newcastle, WA
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posted 01 November 2006 07:14 PM
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He had spent years learning exactly which pot and capacitor combination would deliver what desired result depending on wood type and density. Now you can call it crazy for not wanting to share what he knows with the free world, but he has a very special skill and thats why just about every pro player takes their guitars to him to tweak.
Curt and tb -- this evidently meant nothing to you. That's okay. It didn't go everybody's heads. Good examples (but I know these won't mean anything to you either): I don't think anybody else--at least for decades, makes chicken like Colonel Sanders. Why? He didn't let anybody know how he did it! Coke! Pepsi! They all have "secret" ingredients. If you're going to knock Tommy, you're putting him in great company with the likes of KFC, Coke and Pepsi. If you can't see the anlogies, then again, that's okay. I can tell you one thing -- Tommy doesn't give a hoot. bOb -- you're a smart guy. Can you argue with the above analogies, along with the one presented about the guitar guy in Nashville? These analogies show why it's rather ridiculous to show what you do, irregardless of what Carter chose to do. Al |
Bobby Lee
Sysop From: Cloverdale, North California, USA
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posted 01 November 2006 07:34 PM
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These analogies show why it's rather ridiculous to show what you do, irregardless of what Carter chose to do.
Public disclosure of an invention is required in order to obtain a patent. It's not ridiculous at all, if what you've done is patentable.------------------
 Bobby Lee (a.k.a. b0b) - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Williams D-12 E9, C6add9, Sierra Olympic S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop S-8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (E13, C6 or A6) My Blog
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Eddie D.Bollinger
Member From: Calhoun City, Mississippi
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posted 01 November 2006 07:41 PM
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Ok, Langston, For the sake of intelligent conversation. Let's call Tommy's work an "adjustment." If you are going to quote me,I simply ask you to do it completely.
The word "Mod" has you all out of sorts, IMHO. Tommy took my Carter guitar and adjusted,Very meticulously, every neck screw, keyhead screw, and anything else that could kill vibration on my guitar. I play every Saturday night and I am digitally
recorded every Saturday Night straight to my
Engineer's hard drive. When I returned the Carter to the stage and played my normal
set on Saturday Night. The engineer, who is not a steel player, asked me after the show
what I had changed. He said he backed all my
steel EQ on the board back to "Flat". In other words, he didn't have to help me none.
That is an improvement Curt.
If you have got a problem with this idea,
you have that freedom. I don't think it is
in anybody's best interest for you to hijack this thread time after time. So there, Tommy "adjusted" my guitar and it's better than it was before he adjusted it. It is not in my head. If it is, I managed to get everybody on that stage to think the same way without saying a word to them.
[This message was edited by Eddie D.Bollinger on 01 November 2006 at 08:19 PM.] |
David Doggett
Member From: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA
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posted 01 November 2006 08:23 PM
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Thank you, Eddie, for letting us know the principle behind what Tommy does. That's all most of us wanted to know, just a general rough idea of what type of alteration he is doing. I don't think any of us expected him to tell us exactly what he does for any particular guitar. It seems to be an art he has gone to some lengths to perfect. Now that I know what to expect, maybe if I lived nearby, I'd take a guitar in to see what he could do with it. I think a little openess like that will get him more business and trust than a complete stone wall of secrecy.P.S.: I grew up in North Mississippi and lived in Columbus briefly as a kid. Glad to see so many steelers kicking around down there. [This message was edited by David Doggett on 01 November 2006 at 08:32 PM.] |
Al Terhune
Member From: Newcastle, WA
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posted 01 November 2006 11:09 PM
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quote:
Public disclosure of an invention is required in order to obtain a patent. It's not ridiculous at all, if what you've done is patentable.
Bob, I hate to say it, but you're skirting the issue. We're not talking about an invention. Keep on the subject. We're talking about a personal touch, like our guitar pro in Nashville. Come on, buddy. Al |
Per Berner
Member From: Skövde, Sweden
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posted 02 November 2006 12:26 AM
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If it's all a matter of re-tightening the screws - which may very well have an audible effect - I don't see any need for keeping things secret. By knowing that fact, I wouldn't all of a sudden know HOW to do it - that would take years of hands-on experience to get right. You wouldn't try do-it-yourself brain surgery after watching a documentary on Discovery, would you? If it was about installing an easily copied electronic circuit, I'd understand the need for secrecy, but not when it comes to performing "non-invasive" adjustments. Sadly, anyone who chooses to be this secretive automatically puts himself in the zero trust category - no matter if the mod works or not. I would never ever consider leaving my guitar/amp/car/etc for a tune-up etc to someone who wouldn't tell me what he intended to do with it. Am I right, or am I right? ------------------
´75 Emmons p/p D10 8+4, '72 AWH Custom D10 8+3, '06 Hybrid Zum SD10 4+5 , Peavey Nashville 1000 |
tbhenry
Member From: Chattanooga /USA
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posted 02 November 2006 03:05 AM
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Now we know. The secret is out. Tightening screws. That is not a new mod!! I have taken many guitars apart and experimented with different screw tensions. The official name for it is adjusting the torque. We do the same thing every day in our BMW workshop.Many of us have been doing this for years. It takes time. I will continue to adjust my own screws on my pedal steels, but if someone doesn't have the ability or skill to do that, just send it to Tommy. He will tighten your screws for you and you can pay him to do it. After all if you can't remove and tighten your car's oil filter you pay someone to do it. Basically, if you have a screw loose Tommy will take care of it for you [This message was edited by tbhenry on 02 November 2006 at 03:07 AM.] [This message was edited by tbhenry on 03 November 2006 at 05:31 PM.] |
Curt Langston
Member From: ***In the shadows of Tulsa at Bixby, USA***
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posted 02 November 2006 03:14 AM
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Sadly, anyone who chooses to be this secretive automatically puts himself in the zero trust category - no matter if the mod works or not.
Agreed. See, this thread was not hijacked. Basic questions were answered. Thats all I ever wanted. To say that I wanted to hijack the thread was silly. Does that mean that anyone who questions something is trying to hijack a thread? I think not. This has been good. |
Al Terhune
Member From: Newcastle, WA
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posted 02 November 2006 06:25 AM
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Sadly, anyone who chooses to be this secretive automatically puts himself in the zero trust category - no matter if the mod works or not. I would never ever consider leaving my guitar/amp/car/etc for a tune-up etc to someone who wouldn't tell me what he intended to do with it.Am I right, or am I right?
Sorry, Per. I don't think you're right. Tommy invited anyone -- including you, to call him on the phone to talk about this mod. He has chosen not to do it publically. Until you call him on the phone, you are certainly not correct. Al |
Curt Langston
Member From: ***In the shadows of Tulsa at Bixby, USA***
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posted 02 November 2006 07:00 AM
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The word "Mod" has you all out of sorts, IMHO.
Not out of sorts, just questioning. quote:
He has chosen not to do it publically.
And that is the reason his "mod" was questioned. I know that proper tension on the screws to the keyhead and changer make a lot of difference. If they are too loose, then you will lose some sustain, and the wood cannot resonate as it should. Thats common sense, not a "mod". I also realize that you have to know how much torque is required, and in what areas. I'll agree to call it an "adjustment", as opposed to a "mod" Bobbe Seymour, Billy Cooper and several others do this to a guitar when they service it. And they know what they are doing. Yet they do not advertise it as a "mod" It is simply part of their overall setup or reconditioning of the instrument. I am not certain, but I would wager, that the "mod" or "adjustment" is included in the price of servicing the guitar. They have been in the business way too long to worry about promoting a gimmick. They don't need to. They stay busy, from what I hear.[This message was edited by Curt Langston on 02 November 2006 at 07:05 AM.] |
Bobby Lee
Sysop From: Cloverdale, North California, USA
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posted 02 November 2006 08:07 AM
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Sorry Al, I thought you were calling Carter's BCT patent disclosure "ridiculous". I misunderstood your post. My bad.
You are correct. This modification is more like a trade secret than an invention. Trade secrets are a form of intellectual property that can only be protected by keeping them secret.
I have spoken to several people about this, and I'm convinced that Tommy's modifications will change the sustain envelope of the instrument.------------------
Bobby Lee (a.k.a. b0b) - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Williams D-12 E9, C6add9, Sierra Olympic S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop S-8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (E13, C6 or A6) My Blog
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Curt Langston
Member From: ***In the shadows of Tulsa at Bixby, USA***
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posted 02 November 2006 08:49 AM
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Sierra does this with their S-8. The keyhead, nut, and bridge are tightly anchored to a solid piece of aluminum, that runs the length of the guitar. The strings go through the tailpiece.Thats how they achieve that wonderful sustain! |
Eddie D.Bollinger
Member From: Calhoun City, Mississippi
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posted 02 November 2006 01:12 PM
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IMHO. There has to be many variables in this
process beside proper screw tensions and
adjustmests, Everything plays a part in the
resonance factor. Things like sequence of
procedures could even play a part. I just don't know. Tommy does. I am just speaking
for myself and a few others that I know here
in the area. We are proud to have Tommy in our arsenal when it comes to the search for better sound. Anybody can turn there own screws. It is just nice to have someone who can do it with a great result. quote:
Does that mean that anyone who questions something is trying to hijack a thread?
I am sorry for that comment,Curt,that was unfair. I just go about questioning things
differently than you do, I guess.
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chris ivey
Member From: sacramento, ca. usa
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posted 02 November 2006 02:23 PM
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the only 'mod' i need is on my own diligence and discipline....how could i expect my steel to make something happen when i'm not even giving it all i have to offer in the first place? |
Al Terhune
Member From: Newcastle, WA
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posted 02 November 2006 02:43 PM
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quote:
Sorry Al, I thought you were calling Carter's BCT patent disclosure "ridiculous". I misunderstood your post. My bad.
Well...I guess in a way I was, ha! I shouldn't have lumped Carter in with the trade secrets, but I was trying to "advance" debate and nip any retorts in the bud, but I weakened my own point. Thanks for standing by Tommy. He's part of what makes this forum a family that should be on the same side of progress for our beloved instruments. I personally think we're all a smart group, and if one of us gets cheated, it rings out loud and clear, and honest, reputable businesspeople can't afford to mislead us. We're a strong, lobbying group (see Peavey). To me, Tommy comes across, especially with the testimonials, as a smart cookie--who might speak in tongues, but all the speaking we need to hear is through his work and happy customers. Al |
Johnny Harris
Member From: Texas, USA
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posted 02 November 2006 05:14 PM
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Come on Guys,
I don't know Tommy at all, but as I see it, he did not start this thread, or advertise his services,
The thread was started by a very satisfied customer, who should be able to recognize an improvement in the sound of his guitar.
If what Tommy does is simply an enhancement of the guitar's tone, then no one could tell anything from a picture, since his work is stated to be non-invasive.
It may also be that he cannot say what he will do to a particular guitar before he has the chance to listen to it, any more than your doctor could tell you what drug he will prescribe until he see's you.
Tommy has invited any one to call him, So indstead of flaming the man, why not just call him? It seems like some folks just have to keep a flame going. |
Al Terhune
Member From: Newcastle, WA
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posted 02 November 2006 06:43 PM
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Well put, Johnny.Al |
Jerry Overstreet
Member From: Louisville Ky
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posted 02 November 2006 10:59 PM
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I should know better, but here goes: I got no dog in this hunt other than I am a Mullen player. The guitar has a great sound with plenty of punch and sustain. I'm happy with the sound. Someone else might not be. As an admitted hopeless gearhead, I see nothing wrong with improving on an already great product if you want.
Whether it's needed or merely wanted, is at the discretion of the owner. As and example, I still have people tell me I'm nuts for buying the LeMay mod for my 400. I don't care what anyone else thinks. I like what I like and I know what I hear. I don't really know or care what he did to it, I just know it sounds better and other people can hear it too. It puts a grin on my face and that's all that matters. As for the guitar treatment, at least 3 people here have testified to the legitimacy of this man's service and are obviously very happy. And according to them, it is not brand specific. The negative connotation of some of these replies not only discredit the technician, but your fellow steel players. Seems to me some of you are accusing the tech of selling 'snake oil' and saying those that have bought it don't know when they have been had. Guys, even pros, are always looking to improve on their sound. I see posts all the time about black boxes, match boxes, speaker swaps, pickup changes....what's different about this?
Even the slightest bit of improvement is worth a lot to some of us. Using the best cords, bars, electronics, speakers, etc. Perhaps not one single item might make a big difference, but all things summed could make the difference in one's satisfaction with the total package. For many of us, if we're hearing a sound we like, we tend to get jazzed on it and play a lot better. If you're one that's not so fussy, just pass on it and let the rest of us waste our money.
Noone is begging anyone to send their axe in for this service. You can just ignore it if you have no interest. You really don't have the right to ask this man to disclose the information to the entire forum just because you think he should. Or to cry wolf without cause. He has stated that he can be contacted for information about the service if you have a genuine interest. Peace [This message was edited by Jerry Overstreet on 02 November 2006 at 11:23 PM.] |
Jerry Roller
Member From: Van Buren, Arkansas USA
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posted 02 November 2006 11:03 PM
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I sorta have a feeling I know who is gonna have the last laugh here. Speaking of laughing, those Wright Brothers sure must have been nuts thinking they could actually make a machine that could fly.
If this guy has not taken any of your money I don't think you have a gripe, and the guys who have paid him money seem quite happy. I have an idea that will eliminate hysterisis but I think I will keep it a secret until I get a chance to trade it for a brand new D10. I sure would love to have a new LeGrande III, 8+9, Day setup.
Jerry |
tommy young
Member From: columbus,ms. usa
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posted 03 November 2006 07:27 AM
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i would like to thank each of u that replyed to this topic because it has gotten my work increased very much and the interest is great the changes that i make are different on each brand of guitar that i have worked on thus far and even some of the same name brand guitars are different as people do require and desire different sound qualities and therefore the pup must differ and ((i do try to change the way it hears the timber of the guitar, most guitars dont let the timber shine thru )), and try to satisfy the individual as to his ability what he wants the end result to be which is sometimes very hard to do, but i do work on the varibles of each guitar and try my best to improve the overall end result ----sometimes a great deal sometimes not, it differs with each PICKER,and GUITAR because if u have a younger inexperienced picker u get medeocre results then if u have a more experenced picker then u get a better end result as the tonal qualities show thru and the difference i have made shines even more thanks for this great forum for allowing this to get to more pickers so that we all can be friends and improve the sounds of this beautiful instrument we have and love thanks very much TOMMY [This message was edited by tommy young on 03 November 2006 at 07:37 AM.] [This message was edited by tommy young on 03 November 2006 at 07:49 AM.] [This message was edited by tommy young on 03 November 2006 at 07:54 AM.] [This message was edited by tommy young on 03 November 2006 at 08:00 AM.] [This message was edited by tommy young on 03 November 2006 at 08:05 AM.] |
tbhenry
Member From: Chattanooga /USA
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posted 03 November 2006 03:47 PM
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Tommy said,"(i do try to change the way it hears the timber of the guitar, most guitars dont let the timber shine thru ))" This is a very erudite statement. I agree with Tommy that the shine on the "timber" is critical. Most pedal steels are made from maple "timber" and you can hear the sound comming through. But as Tommy says most guitars don't let the "timber" shine through. Last time I checked my pedal steel I could see the "timber" shining through clear and strong. Perhaps if one was to apply a laquer underneath the guitar one could see the "timber" shinning through. Perhaps if you want top improve your "resonance potential" in addition to tightening your screws you could do something to let the "timber" shine through. I am considering stripping off the mica on my Emmons Legrande so that the "timber" can shine through. (PS I really do know what timbre is!! [This message was edited by tbhenry on 03 November 2006 at 10:03 PM.] |
Al Terhune
Member From: Newcastle, WA
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posted 03 November 2006 04:32 PM
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Tommy -- that's great this have given you high exposure and more business. As mentioned by Jerry, most innovaters have to wade through the hecklers. You've maintained your integrity in a stand-up fashion. I'm proud we're brothers through this forum. Al |
P Gleespen
Member From: Lakewood, OH USA (I miss Boston!)
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posted 03 November 2006 05:13 PM
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tb, I think if you're going to rag on a guy for spelling timbre incorrectly, it's important not to screw up the spelling of so many other words. |
Al Terhune
Member From: Newcastle, WA
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posted 03 November 2006 09:35 PM
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That is a bit...ironic. I was wondering what tb meant by "shinning..." Can shins do that? Can our shins do shinning? tb -- I think it's "shining." Al |
tbhenry
Member From: Chattanooga /USA
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posted 03 November 2006 10:08 PM
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No Al, not ironic, but timberonic!! |
Al Terhune
Member From: Newcastle, WA
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posted 03 November 2006 11:16 PM
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tb -- you changed shinning to shining; now go back and change comming to coming. Now THAT'S timmmmberonic! Al |
b0b
Sysop From: Cloverdale, California, USA
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posted 04 November 2006 06:24 AM
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When a topic digresses into criticism of spelling, I take it as a omen. Closed.------------------
 Bobby Lee
-b0b- quasar@b0b.com
System Administrator
My Blog [This message was edited by b0b on 04 November 2006 at 06:24 AM.] |
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