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Author
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Topic: Sierra modular pickups and tone quality
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Fred Glave
Member From: McHenry, Illinois, USA
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posted 01 November 2006 09:46 AM
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Recent posts about tone quality have me wondering about my Sierra Crown. I have 2 modular pickups that came with the guitar. One is single wound and the other double. They both sound the same to me...flat. I love the sound of my old Fender 2000, so I know it;s not the amp, or other interfaces. Do modular pick ups fit a specific brand guitar, or can others be used. I'd like to try something new. |
Bobby Lee
Sysop From: Cloverdale, North California, USA
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posted 01 November 2006 10:31 AM
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I switch between a Bill Lawrence 712 for bright sounds and a George L 12-1 for darker sounds. To me there's a world of difference. Both are humbuckers. |
Fred Glave
Member From: McHenry, Illinois, USA
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posted 01 November 2006 12:28 PM
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Thanks Bob, and I take it that they just slip right in without any modification to the guitar? If so, are all modular pick-ups one size fits all? |
Mike Perlowin
Member From: Los Angeles CA
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posted 01 November 2006 12:52 PM
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As far as I know, the only 2 manufacturers who have a modular system are Sierra and MSA, and unfortunately the 2 systems are incompatable with each other. |
Scott Swartz
Member From: St. Louis, MO
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posted 01 November 2006 02:06 PM
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Doe your Crown have the tone control and is it functioning properly?Usually they had a switch to take it out of the circuit also. If you use a buffer (Black Box, Steeldriver) or a buffered volume pedal (Hilton, etc) you will notice a lot more difference between pickups. |
Mike Perlowin
Member From: Los Angeles CA
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posted 01 November 2006 02:09 PM
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You might consider adding a little 6 band EQ unit. They will allow you do shape the tone in many different ways.------------------
quote:
Great minds discuss ideas.
Common minds discuss events.
Small minds discuss people.- Eleanor Roosevelt
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My web site |
Jim Palenscar
Member From: Oceanside, Calif, USA
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posted 01 November 2006 06:17 PM
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Most any steel guitar pickup will work- just get a pickup holder from Sierra, solder the connections, and get that silicone adhesive (like for fish aquariums, etc.), and put some in the bottom (once you're assured that it works) to affix the pickup in the holder~~ |
Bobby Lee
Sysop From: Cloverdale, North California, USA
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posted 01 November 2006 07:36 PM
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Fred, it takes me about 4 seconds to change pickups in my Sierra. I often do it on the bandstand between songs with time to spare.------------------
 Bobby Lee (a.k.a. b0b) - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Williams D-12 E9, C6add9, Sierra Olympic S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop S-8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (E13, C6 or A6) My Blog
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Eric West
Member From: Portland, Oregon, USA
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posted 01 November 2006 07:47 PM
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Well Fred, as I duck and run, IMHO the reason Sierras sound "flat" is that the pickups are isolated from the body. At least the ones that I used to try out at the Sierra Company before it "relocated" were, includin the "Crown" they had out front. I've never liked the tone of the ones I've tried. Probably Pete Burak got the best I'd heard out of one with some ones that seemed wound thinner than the norm. Lots of sparkle to make up for the loss of "body sheen". The Fenders are not isolated. Neither are Sho~Buds, Emmons', or a dozen others I can name. I wouldn't sink a lot of money trying to get it to sound like anything other than what it is: A guitar with an isolated pickup. OR try measuring it up for a pickup you screw down to the body and see if you like it. JW does any kind of custom winds and dimensions. JMHO. EJL |
ed packard
Member From: Show Low AZ
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posted 02 November 2006 08:10 AM
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Just a bit of input on Pickups, and pickup mounting. This is from a study of tone & sustain vs. construction done on 32 different PSGs last Dec at Jim Palenscar's shop (North County Steel Guitars)in Oceanside Ca. The pickup mounting method (simplified) is given here:
 Some of the distance of pickup to strings seem to be wrong...probably by a decimal point position (0.99 probably S/B 0.099 etc.)
For photos of the instruments, and further listing re materials etc...go to: http://s75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/edpackard/ The Sierra Session series (and probably the Crown/Elegante, types) pickups of various contruction, are Gel affixed (silica gel mostly) into a hard plastic box. This container mounts via dovetail slide onto a hard plastic plate. This plate is mounted to the aluminum body via two screws that pass thru the hardwood neck, through a thin layer of formica, through a thin layer of wood, and into the amuminum body. Four height setting screws are used to position the pickup in height re the strings. The bottom of the positioning screws (4) press against the hardwood neck block, which covers a thin layer of formica, which covers a layer of wood, which in turn covers the aluminum body = big sandwich. On the BEAST, since there is no neck block, the pickup receiver is mounted to an aluminum plate, against which the 4 adjusting screws press. You can compare the tone/sustain of the Beast to the PST made with Session Series hardware in the photo's/charts at the photobucket site.
RE tone/sustain etc...I do not think that person A knows what person B means when person B describes the "tone/sustain/sound" as "bell like, warm, bright, crisp, etc"....the words just do not have it when speaking in general; For direct comparison of a pair/group of instruments that are at the site of the comparison/discussion, the words used will take on a temporary and local meaning to those discussing the sounds.
The pickups on my Sho-Bud Pro are spring (3) loaded against a top plate so that they can be adjusted re the strings. [This message was edited by ed packard on 02 November 2006 at 10:15 AM.]
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Fred Glave
Member From: McHenry, Illinois, USA
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posted 02 November 2006 10:20 AM
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I can interchange the 2 pickups that I currently have very easily and quick. Neither one of them impress me as far as tone is concerned. If I try a new pickup, the holder idea sounds easy to install. But only if it can accomodate a variety of pickups for me to try out. There may be something to Eric's theory about the fixed pickup. I don't know. The tones that come from most steels that I hear seems to be missing from my Crown. Regardless of the amp I plug into, or settings nothing seems to help. |
ed packard
Member From: Show Low AZ
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posted 02 November 2006 11:50 AM
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Fred...have you let someone whose tone you like play your instrument through his/her setup? |
Fred Glave
Member From: McHenry, Illinois, USA
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posted 02 November 2006 03:16 PM
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Ed, I don't know any steelers around here personally. If I did, I'd sure like someone to play my guitar and hear what they make it sound like. Maybe the next time I'm in St. Louis, I'll stop in at Scotty's. Don Curtis just got through doing some nice work on it, maybe he could help me out. I'm thinking about installing a pickup holder for a different brand pickup. |
Pete Burak
Member From: Portland, OR USA
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posted 04 November 2006 11:18 AM
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Fred,
The pickup I mainly use is a TrueTone 17.5K ohm.
I really like it in conjunction with the Steel Guitar Black Box.
'Not sure about the "Isolated" thing.
On my Emmons, Fender, and ShoBuds, the pickup is separated from the body by a set of springs, which allow you adjust the height.
I've read on the Forum that steels with pickups mounted directly to the body amplify every little pedal/lever/mechanical noise, in an undesirable way.
I might be thinking of something different from what Eric is saying, though.
I've heard alot of guys play Sierra over the years, and some sound great and others sound a little muddy to me (I'm guessing this is the same as "Flat" sounding, unless we are talking about tuning  ).
Some of the Danny Shields pickups I have are very muddy sounding, but they sound good when used with Fender amps with those piercing highs.
Any Dannny Shields pickup is probably 30 years old by now... maybe a re-mag is in order?
FWIW, I receive alot of tonal compliments on my Sierra, and thank Eric for his kind words.
One other thought.... I almost always run stereo.
~pb
[This message was edited by Pete Burak on 04 November 2006 at 12:21 PM.] |
Fred Glave
Member From: McHenry, Illinois, USA
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posted 06 November 2006 11:25 AM
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Hi Pete, This is the Sierra Crown that I bought from Steve Takacs. It is a very nice guitar mechanically, but it does sound kind of muddy/flat. The age of the guitar is unclear. The best guess is mid 1980's. I think that the pickups are the culprit. Some good suggestions from everyone. When/if I get the chance I'll try them out.[This message was edited by Fred Glave on 06 November 2006 at 11:26 AM.] |
Chris Moore
New Member From: Mundelein, Illinois, USA
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posted 07 November 2006 10:03 PM
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Fred, I am a new PSG player and have two sierras, a D12 sessions 01' & older 80's S12. I have to agree that the Sierras don't have the thiner/ brighter single coil sound. I played a friends Zum that had the "country" tone, however I would tend to think that the pickups themselves are more the reason. I bought a extra pickup for my older one, which had a humbucker and it was much brighter. I have no idea what actual pickups are in my newer one (sierra 1 & 2), but it sounds closer to what your describing. I am a "tone freak" for my 6 string guitars and the same thing happens between single coil pickups (strats & teles) vs. humbucker (les puals). The singles just have better tone for most applications and all of them float seperate from the body as do most every guitar. I also use amps that have tone shifts which thin out H.B. like Mesa Boogies & Riveras. I have a Peavey Nash.400 & I am not really crazy about my sound w/ the sierras, but the Zum sounded great through it. Also, Tom was very helpful at Sierra. |
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