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 Steel players nightmare (Page 2)
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John Kavanagh Member From: Kentville, Nova Scotia, Canada |
posted 19 August 2004 09:46 AM
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I heard a story that Jefferson Airplane used to have a harmonica player that was good but - because he was either chemically imbalanced or just stupid - never ever stopped playing. They did kee him on stage (he must have been very good), and whenever they wanted a harp solo they'd nod at the SOUND MAN, who would turn his mike channel on. Perhaps he'd open it partway for fills, I don't know. The story goes that the guy was so clueless or wasted that he never caught on. I have often fantasized about having a volume pedal that controlled someone else's amp. The sax players who are good enough to usefully back up solos, usually don't. [This message was edited by John Kavanagh on 19 August 2004 at 09:50 AM.] |
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Chris Forbes Member From: Beltsville, MD, USA |
posted 19 August 2004 01:01 PM
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That's fantastic!! I really like your idea about the volume pedal for someone else's amp. Reminds me of when my brother used to take a universal tv remote with him to sports bars and mess with the channels periodically by switching over to Animal Planet or something similiar. I pitied that poor bartender. |
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Ivan Combs Member From: Stephenson, West Virginia, USA |
posted 19 August 2004 07:07 PM
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HEY FELLOWS I HAVE BEEN PLAYING FOR YEARS AND FOUND OUT THAT 99% OF THE TIME THAT WHAT EVER INSTRUMENTS IS ON STAGE WANTS TO PUT ANY HOT LICK THAT IT COULD FIND ANYWHERE IT CAN. IVAN COMBS ------------------ |
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ESnow Member From: Berryville AR USA |
posted 20 August 2004 11:24 AM
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I know a couple fiddle players that need to read this post. Why can't all players just listen to what is going on around them and play as a unit. When someone is singing a song, a musician's job is to try and compliment what the singer is doing which involves knowing when not to play. Some never learn this and play all over vocals or other instrument fills. That is what seperates players from Great Players. I've always felt that less is more. |
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Andy Greatrix Member From: Edmonton Alberta |
posted 20 August 2004 03:21 PM
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You don't need to be a great player to know when to lay out. The song is always more important than anyone in the band. |
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Chris Forbes Member From: Beltsville, MD, USA |
posted 28 August 2004 03:15 AM
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Well heeeeeeeeeeere we go!! I have a 2-6 today with this fiddle playing idiot at a Lodge in Harper's Ferry. I'll let you guys know if I had to Kung Fu him. It ought to be funny cause it's a hoity toidy kinda joint, they might be horrified by the spurting blood!! LOL!!!!!!!! |
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John De Maille Member From: Merrick,N.Y. U.S.A. |
posted 28 August 2004 11:56 AM
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I worked with a band, not long ago, that had a guitar player, who liked to play slide guitar. Particularly, through my solo's and when I did backup fills.I didn't know for sure what I was hearing, at first. But, then I figured it out. I thought that there was something wrong with my amp, or the PA. I asked the bandleader about it and he sheepishly told me, that, the guitar player was his childhood friend and he didn't want to cause a fuss or upset him. I eventually quit that band, never to return, much happier with my decision. |
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Chris Forbes Member From: Beltsville, MD, USA |
posted 30 August 2004 05:12 AM
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Well, I tried all of the remedies suggested so far and still half way through the second set he still hadn't shut up. So I got up in the middle of a song, repositioned my Nashville 1000 so it was aimed at his head and I let him have it with both barrels. He played less after that, but still did 75% of the fills. I told the bandleader at the end of the night that I wouldn't be available for any more gigs that the fiddle player was on, life is too short. |
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Gerald Menke Member From: Brooklyn, NY, USA |
posted 01 September 2004 07:49 AM
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It's pretty funny how the comedy quotient is off the charts whenever threads about harmonicas and fiddles are concerned. Two things come to mind: basically as soon as I see someone with a harmonica on the bandstand, I know it's going to be a rough night. I have yet to be proven wrong. This was the case even with a dude who was playing Django Reinhardt and Charlie Christian charts with us. Incredible player, but played every fill on every song. Bob, I have to agree with you, few are the musicians who when given advice take it, my goal also is to play with the people who know just what to do without anyone saying a word. When that is happening, I don't think there's any better thing in the world. One sort of exception that proves the rule type thing, I was listening to some albums that featured JD Manness, and that guy never stopped playing, yet somehow it works. Maybe it's because he plays with such nuance and taste and has so many ideas to draw on the steel doesn't become obtrusive when he's behind it. |
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Charles Turpin Member From: Mexico, Missouri, USA |
posted 01 September 2004 02:17 PM
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Playing with fiddle or Sax players that over play is very annoying i know. But what about lead guitar players that do the opposite. I had a Boss man one time at a local show. That he would let you improvise on any new song that came out. Then his wife , the singer of the group had to have everything just like the record. Now this Boss was a former bluegrasser, and i could play all the new licks that where coming out on the guitar as well. Sometimes on Saturdays right before the show all the way from 2in the evening till,6 in the evening this boss and i would get together i was showing him the new stuff. Then from 6 till 7 everyone came in and we rehearsed what everyone else wanted to do on the show. We all went and ate from 7 till 8. Every week end you know how it is at one place like this you play new songs every week if you can. But after all that practice about the middle of the show the Wife is announced to do the new song. The boss man turns to you for his parts and reaches down on his guitar and turns his volume down and pretends he is playing. You just take your foot off the volume pedal then transpose his part while he is playing through dead sound then your part comes in and you put your foot on the gas and play your part to.I guess that is how i learned so many guitar parts on pedal steel ..But this did get aggravated at times. We never no what goes on behind closed doors at some of these shows ------------------ |
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Nicholas Dedring Member From: Brooklyn, New York, USA |
posted 02 September 2004 10:20 AM
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I find that I hear a reasonable number of fiddle players who have pretty grim intonation problems. It just really puts my teeth on edge, no matter how quick and versatile a dude is, that grating problem just makes me want to throw my hands up in a playing context... My problem of late is that fills or breaks will come up, and I often can't really tell whether the fiddle player (who goes through the PA, which I can hardly hear from the back, where I'm sitting) has started taking a break or a fill or whatnot... Nobody seems to particular about assigning those spots in a planned way, so I am always on the edge of my seat to do something if there's "dead air". |
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HowardR Member From: N.Y.C.,N.Y. |
posted 02 September 2004 02:59 PM
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Gerald, when I saw you at The Rodeo bar with King's County Queens a few nights ago, I thought that the harmonica player that came up and played one tune with you guys was pretty decent. He didn't play all over the place. He knew where and when to play, and when to lay out. What did you think? |
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Dan Sawyer Member From: Studio City, California, USA |
posted 28 September 2004 10:48 PM
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In the early days of bebop jazz, Dizzy Gillespie and Charlie Parker, etc always jammed at a club in Harlem called Minton's. Of course, all the young jazzers wanted to sit in. But if a musician tried to sit in that wasn't very good, the house band had a great way to make hum shut up. On a predetermined hand signal, the whole band would modulate to some foreign key. Unless, the sitter-in had great "ears" he would be completely lost, stumbling around trying to figure out what key they were in, looking like a total fool. If he did manage to find the key, they could always change again. Chris, great story about tuning to 435! That would make the harmonica player sound sharp. It might even be funnier if you guys tuned to 445, then the poor harp player would sound flat, which usually sounds worse than being sharp. And why is it that harmonica players are always the worst offenders? So many (not all) of them seem like amatuers or beginners. Most other musicians feel like they must achieve a certain level of professionalism, a certain level of "chops" before they would even think about performing in public. What is it about harmonica players that make them so bold about playing so much with so little musical knowledge? Another thing you could do is: if a harmonica player asks to sit in, insist that he or she play the "chromatic" harmonica. That should seperate the wheat from the chafe. ------------------ |
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Chris Forbes Member From: Beltsville, MD, USA |
posted 29 September 2004 03:21 AM
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Forgive my ignorance, what is a chromatic harmonica? |
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David L. Donald Member From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand |
posted 29 September 2004 03:40 AM
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A chromatic harmonica is one with all the notes of the scale avalable. As played by Stevie Wonder or Toots Theilman. It has a lever on the side to open the sharps or flats for each mouth hole. You must understand the sharps and flats in a given key to know which notes to play in other than the key of C. I had several lessons on chromatic harp, once upon a time, from the leader of the HarmioniCats, considered possibly the best harmonica group ever. [This message was edited by David L. Donald on 30 September 2004 at 04:11 AM.] |
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John Steele Member From: Renfrew, Ontario, Canada |
posted 29 September 2004 06:03 AM
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Jerry Murad... Cool ! -John |
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Chris Forbes Member From: Beltsville, MD, USA |
posted 30 September 2004 03:25 AM
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Thank you David, I didn't know that. [This message was edited by Chris Forbes on 30 September 2004 at 03:27 AM.] |
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Dan Sawyer Member From: Studio City, California, USA |
posted 30 September 2004 11:11 AM
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The idea about having a volume pedal for someone else's amp is not so far fetched. I once saw a band playing in a hotel in the midwest. At the end of their songs they did the most perfect fade-outs i'd ever heard. Then, i noticed the leader had a volume pedal for THE WHOLE BAND! He was the one making the band fade out. If you're scratching your head about the drums, they used a drum machine and everything came out of the PA. |
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Drew Howard Member From: Mason, MI, U.S.A. |
posted 30 September 2004 04:10 PM
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I wish there were ANY fiddlers around these parts!! Drew ------------------ |
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Jim Cohen Member From: Philadelphia, PA |
posted 30 September 2004 08:27 PM
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Yeah, Drew, I used to wish for that too. All I can say is, "Be careful what you wish for; you just might get it!"  |
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Chris Forbes Member From: Beltsville, MD, USA |
posted 01 October 2004 03:15 AM
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Drew, I know of at least one I'd LOVE to send your way. |
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Rick McDuffie Member From: Smithfield, North Carolina, USA |
posted 01 October 2004 05:13 AM
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Bad musicians aren't instrument-specific. Shoot him |
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Roger Rettig Member From: NAPLES, FL |
posted 01 October 2004 06:36 AM
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Yeah - shoot him! (We'll all give you an alibi....) RR |
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Andy Greatrix Member From: Edmonton Alberta |
posted 01 October 2004 03:02 PM
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My uncle Bob told me, when he worked in lumber camps as a young man, that some guys would practice their fiddle after work. Back in those days there was no electricity. If a guy played really bad, they would wait until he went to sleep and then rub his bow and strings witha a piece of pork rind. Problem solved! |
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Jim Peters Member From: St. Louis, Missouri, USA |
posted 01 October 2004 06:29 PM
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I'll never be in another band with a harmonica player. The notes cut right thru me , and it always sounds too loud! On another note, I was fortunate enough to fill in on 6string in a country band a few years back.( I am not a country player.) The extremely excellent steeler(PatHeller) was/is amazingly talented and tasteful. During one song, I don't remember which, I finally just quit playing, and stood there like an idiot, watching him play! After a moment, he looked at me and said "Jim, you gotta play!" I said" Why, there is nothing I could add to make it better." I meant it as a sincere compliment. JImP |
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