Ain't sure if any of that is true, but I can't think of any Cash tune with steel guitar on it, but I haven't heard all the album tunes.
So I guess he wasn't country, but he sure fooled a lot of people.

[This message was edited by Gerald Pierce on 01 December 2005 at 02:41 PM.]

Where would you list the tunes I have mentioned above - Jazz, Pop, Rock, Blues, Easy Listening?????? Would be interesting to hear!

Kind Regards, Walter

Have you really read my post? I didn’t say anything about these songs played by artists or bands of other genres, I listed specific artists and songs they recorded, with no steel being used on those specific recordings. Do you really think the Louvin Brothers singing “When I Stop Dreaming” is not country, Hank Williams singing “Calling You” is not country, Roy Acuff singing the “Tennessee Waltz” is not country, Merle Haggard singing “High On A Hilltop” is not country???? What would you call those recordings, where would you file them, under Jazz, Blues, Heavy Metal, Pop????

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the steel guitar as anybody here on this forum but I am not going for those simplifying black & white definitions. I believe there is life in between!

Kind Regards, Walter

I also appreciate your response, it is always refreshing to have a substantial discussion on this forum, without personal accusations and getting mad at each other! I definitely respect your opinion, I also agree to your statement about the importance of the steel guitar for country music history – players like Jerry Byrd, Little Roy Wiggins, Don Helms, Lloyd Green, Buddy Emmons, Jimmy Day, Bud Isaacs Curly Chalker, John Hughey, Hal Rugg, Ralph Mooney, Weldon Myrick (forgive me for every name I have NOT listed here!) have created signature sounds for artists and have helped to sell millions and millions of records. The steel guitar has defined the sound of country music for decades, it is interesting to note that people who don’t like country music always lament about the “crying steel guitars” when they start talking, looks like others also note the significance of the instrument for the musical style!

I also agree to your definition about the modern, commercial sounds that they try to sell as “country” today. Most of the stuff doesn’t fall under my definition of country music. In this case, even the sound of the steel guitar (a few chords here and there is all you can hear on many of these recordings) doesn’t make it country, IMHO. I have stopped listening to that crap a long time ago, it simply doesn’t interest me! But… there is a lot of great country music today, mostly by independent artists on small labels, singers like Jake Hooker, Justin Trevino, Robbie Fulks and a lot of others sure fall under that category. If Lloyd, Dickie, Tommy, John and all the other great players are given a chance to add some of their brilliance to a record, what more can you ask for!

What I wanted to point out in my previous posts was that there is great country music that made the country charts, the artists who did the songs are considered to be icons of the country music history (like the Louvin Brothers), they are members of the Country Music Hall of Fame – but they didn’t use steel on a lot of their recordings. On the other hand you mentioned the Western Swing legend Bob Wills. He always was strictly against his music being called “country” but the steel guitar always was an integral part of the Bob Wills sound. Even today, many hardcore Western Swing fans are not concurring with Western Swing being labeled as “Country”!

Well, let’s not argue too much about the strict definitions, after all it’s the music that we all love, and the most beautiful instrument in the world!

Kind Regards, Walter

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Walter,of course any of the songs you listed can be played by a jazz,pop,rock,blues,blue grass,heavy metal,or any band.they are just songs,but without steel they are NOT country.No steel,No country.

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That's what you consider Ernest Tubb and the Carter Family, on their recordings without steel? "jazz,pop,rock,blues,blue grass,heavy metal" ????

By the way, "Harold [Curly] Chalker" as you call him was a good friend of mine and was anything BUT a country musician, though he could play it. He was jazz down to his bones. So were most of the musicians playing western swing, including the steelers.

[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 07 December 2005 at 04:56 PM.]

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Ernest Tubb and the Carter Family, on their recordings without steel? ... heavy metal??

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No, I wasn't thinking you were calling him "JUST a country musician". That would be to imply that country musicians are inferior and I wouldn't say that and I know you wouldn't either.

I was only pointing out that it seemed kindof ironic to me that you quite strongly believe that if there's no steel, it's not country, and that many of the steel players playing that country don't/didn't even consider themselves as really "country musicians", in fact many of them were straight-ahead jazzers in their hearts. That's all. Not that it matters much.

[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 07 December 2005 at 08:33 PM.]