In the other thread, now closed, Mike Cass replied to my concern for the plight of Billy Jenkins in the following quotations:

"Harry, Ron jr's words about that to myself & the customer in question were:"If we find that I am liable for your order, I will see to it that you get the guitar you ordered."

Billy Jenkins has his check which was cashed by the Emmons Company. The funds are no longer in his account.

How can anybody say that they don't owe him the guitar or his money back?

Have we reached the sad day where the Emmons Company is reduced to hiding behind legal manuvers which will leave a sixty year old man, who is living on a fixed income, holding the proverbial empty bag?

"Ron assured me that if he is the responsible party when the smoke clears, or in the event that he is found not responsible but in a position to help, he would welcome the opprotunity to continue to keep the trademark name in good standing in the industry......cant be any fairer than that."

What would be fair would be that the owners take the position that this fellow will receive his guitar..... period. I would hope that they realize that THIS IS their oppurtunity to "keep the trademark name in good standing in the industry".

If somebody raided the Emmons coffers and made off with the funds, that really stinks. I don't know what happened to the Emmons Company and shouldn't speculate. But whatever happened, it must have been bad and unfortunately the owners may have to eat it on this one in order to maintain their reputation. Honest and fair businessmen would understand that and grit their teeth and get it behind them. If they meet their obligations no matter what their hardship, they will earn a great deal of respect. If they take the easy way out and hide behind legalities, they will not.

Statements to the effect that "if he is the responsible party when the smoke clears" sound to reasonable people like somebody is blowing smoke though.

"That being said,I would think that from here on out, unless Ron, Jim or their lawyers post on here,or communicate with the PSG community in some way, we should drop this futile excercise in second guessing, needles speculation & innuendo."

I have not read every word of every post in that thread, however in my post I see nothing that I believe can be refered to as "second guessing, needles speculation & innuendo", so I'll assume that comment is aimed elsewhere. If I'm wrong, I'm sorry.

Sadly, it does happen every day that somebody pays for a product and the company they've dealt with goes through some kind of reshuffling and the customer is told that they are just plain out of luck....... sorry.

But is the Emmons company gonna stoop to that level?

I don't wish to drag the Emmons Comany or Ron Lashley, Jr. through the mud. Nor do I want to kick them when they're down. And I can understand how they don't want any posts or threads regarding this matter. One has to wonder though, how could they hope to achieve a private resolution while applying "Caller Blocking" to Billy Jenkins phone number?

I'm aware that this is really not my business. Perhaps I should be like most people and keep my mouth shut and not make waves or possibly enemies and just say "Gee that's too bad, glad it's not me". But I've never been able to stand by and watch a little guy, or an older gentleman in this case, take a beating.

This fellow suffered a heart attack last year. He can't supplement his fixed income by playing gigs because he has no guitar to play them with. He has no guitar because he sold his and gave the money to the Emmons Company for a new guitar. His heart medications are expensive and he needs to gig to make ends meet.

He is suffering. If nobody will stand up for him because they are afraid of what will be said of them by the Emmons Company and their friends and associates, then what does that say of us?

Are we satisfied with this modern society where it seems that nobody cares about anybody but themselves?

Sometimes you gotta stand up to the big boys and go to bat for your brother, even if he is a stranger. You may walk away with a black eye, but you'll sleep better.

Again, I have no ill will toward Ron Lashley, Jr or the Emmons Company. To the contrary, I think it'd be a sad day for the steel guitar world if they ever closed their doors. I own two Emmons guitars and I love them very much. I really wanna see the Emmons Company thrive. It'd be a real drag if they ever shut down.

But even if they are presently experiencing difficulties, they are still an established company with assets and resourses. To the contrary, Billy Jenkins is a sixty year old country boy in poor health trying to survive.

Often it seems like some business's feel that seniors don't have enough energy to fight for their rights and will soon fold up and go away. I'm certainly not suggesting that the Emmons company operates that way, but I know I've seen seniors treated that way by other companies in other situations.

I just don't wanna see Billy Jenkins fall through the cracks.

I really hope my post is not taken as an attack on anybody or trouble making. I just feel really bad for Billy Jenkins. Somebody's gotta stand up for him. There's gotta be a way that this guy can be treated fairly.

Is there anybody who can help him out of his difficulty?

Regards,
HH

[This message was edited by Harry Hess on 02 October 2001 at 04:04 AM.]

In the meantime though, I would be willing to send funds to Billy to help him with purchasing his heart medication. Perhaps others might be willing to do the same here?

I don't think it's appropriate to call for a boycott at this time. I'll bet Ron Lashley, Jr is presently under a lot of stress himself. I'll also bet that with the oppurtunity to sleep on it, he'll do the right thing.

What we should express is our desire to see both parties get through their mutual difficult times. Emmons is a great company, a major part of the steel guitar tradition.

But, I guess they're still businessmen and like all businessmen, occasionally need to be reminded to over ride the number crunchers and maintain the humane element in their company. I'm sure they will do the right thing.

But I sure hope we can soon see Billy Jenkins out there gigging and keeping his head above water financially.

But it is also of utmost importance that he not be put through any more stress.

He's already suffered a recent heart attack. He's sixty years old and probably worked hard all his life. I'd like to know that he is out there gigging and enjoying the hell out of a beautiful new Emmons and able to pay for those expensive heart medications. Not sweating about if and when will he ever receive the guitar he paid for in good faith.

That's a great idea. We could get the guy's and gal's here on the Forum to help out with the cost of his meds.

EVERYBODY PLEASE..... LET'S KEEP THIS THREAD POSITIVE.

ANYBODY WHO WANTS TO BASH THE EMMONS COMPANY, PLEASE STAY OUT OF THIS THREAD.

But if we show our support for Billy Jenkins in a positive way, the Good Lord may just put things right here.

Regards,
HH

If you are truly needy, talk with your physician. There are multiple programs run by drug companies which provide free medication to folks with limited resources. Your doctor can also provide you with free sample medication easily. If he can't do these things, I would suggest you try a second doctor. I practice medicine in the second poorest county in Texas. The vast majority of my patients are indigent. We do the above every day of the week. It can be done. God bless

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This fellow suffered a heart attack last year. He can't supplement his fixed income by playing gigs because he has no guitar to play them with. He has no guitar because he sold his and gave the money to the Emmons Company for a new guitar. His heart medications are expensive and he needs to gig to make ends meet.

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I just feel really bad for Billy Jenkins. Somebody's gotta stand up for him. There's gotta be a way that this guy can be treated fairly.

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That's a great idea. We could get the guy's and gal's here on the Forum to help out

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I own two Emmons guitars

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....hmmmmm.....

Bob

And If I really wanted to stir things up, I'd ask Ron how he happens to be the owner of that Trademark.

So it's your opinion that since I've taken an interest in Billy Jenkins plight and have felt compelled to advocate for him, that I should be the one to give him one of my guitars in order to bail out the Emmons Company?

Do I detect a hint of suggestion that I'm somehow the villian here after all?

I hate it when you have to try to read between the lines to figure out what a guy really wants to say. And BTW Bob, who exactly do you feel is posting uninformed opinions here?

Are you suggesting that Billy Jenkins is lieing or being less than totally forthcoming in his claim?

Pat,

You've suggested that I loan him one of my Emmons. Well, I had given that some consideration but until I settle my Father's estate and back taxes I'd be afraid to let anything go anywhere. Because my Emmons guitars are substantial assets of mine, and I'm hoping like hell that I won't have to sell either of them to settle any debts.

How about some of the guy's here on the Forum who own 15 to 20 PSGuitars? Maybe one of those fellows could see their way to loan him one that they are not currently using.

Even better yet, maybe the Emmons Company would have a trade in sitting around that THEY could loan him till they deliver his "paid in full" order.

Steve,

Your suggestion is of a positive nature. I hope Billy Jenkins reads this and checks that option out. I have taken advantage of free samples from my MD's in the past.

Only drawback is that they usually can only give you a few days worth and can't garruntee when they can get more from the reps, so it really doesn't provide one with any sense of long, or even medium term confidence that they are OK for Meds.

It would sure seem to be a shame to suggest that the fellow may have to resort to some form of welfare.

Kinda strange that a guy would have to take such things into consideration while making the decision to buy a PSG, huh?

I guess that I was born too early. I sometimes have difficulties making sense of modern morals/logic, etc.

I do have an idea of how Billy Jenkins could be helped, but I think it's a tad premature to conclude at this time that the Emmons Guitar Co. will not, in a timely fashion, full fill their original promise to Billy Jenkins when they accepted his money.

Regards,
HH

[This message was edited by Harry Hess on 02 October 2001 at 02:39 PM.]

1. No one, including myself, knows the nature of the change in ownership of the Emmons Company therefore solutions and accusations are both meaningless. As a rule, accounts payable and accounts receivable usually always stay with the seller and are not transfered to the buyer. This would place the responsibility on the shoulders of the former owner if this was the case but we don't know.
2. The money used to pay for the guitar was paid to the former owner, not the present owner. Again, depending upon the nature and circumstances surrounding the change in ownership this would place the responsibility upon the shoulders of the former owner. In a smooth, unified sale or transfer of ownership, the seller usually makes concessions or compensations for unfinished work that is still due to customers and again we don't know.
3. No one is hiding behind legal maneuvers nor is anyone apparently saying that Billy isn't owed a guitar that has been paid for. What IS being said is that it has been one week since this change of ownership took place and I don't think that the new owners have had time to wade through all of what they received. I don't think this was the usual smooth transaction that accompanies most changes of ownerships but again, I DON'T KNOW.
4. Bottom line is, Jim Aycoth was the owner of Emmons Guitar Co. and was paid the money for the guitar in question and unless some concession was made prior to the change of ownership, he is the responsible party BUT AGAIN, we don't know!
5. Now, if it involved a corporation, which it did, there are many legal problems to sort out and I'm sure this and other simular situations are part of those problems being sorted so maybe patience would be of virtue at this time, this I DO know.

I feel for Billy. This is a rotten thing to happen to anyone, especially Billy. No one is deserving of this but fingers shouldn't be pointed at those who are not responsible for what happened until proof is presented to state otherwise. I have this strange feeling that this is going to play out like the ending of a fairy tale, "......and they all lived happily ever after" but again, I don't know!

Harry, you sounded wonderful. Bill is lucky to have a friend like you. As far as making decisions to buy guitars instead of "other necessities", what can I say.....the man loves his steel guitar (and his poodle).

Bill has always had a SG, he sold a ShowBud to buy the Emmons, and for the time being, that money is gone. Harry did say one thing I agree with, it will take Bill a long time to save that money again, as he does take care of his family.

God bless us all, and I hope Emmons does the right thing period.

Yes this whole steel guitar business does appear at times to be a nasty business. And if you try to stick up for a guy who you fear may be getting the shaft by the accounts he gives of the situation from his end, you may end up with mud slung at you or taking sarcastic jabs from some of the more cold hearted among us.

Oh well, I still believe it's right to try to stick up for each other, no matter what the naysayers say or do. Trick is just to ignore the "downer" types and stick with those who show a little heart for their steelguithar brethren,

Somebody sent an email suggesting that you look into a federal law called "the Bulk Sales Act"

The emailer states:

"if the Emmons company is changing
hands legally, then there is a federal law called the " Bulk Sales Act ". This provides provisions which make the new owners liable for any obligations. I just used this in a small claims suit on my day job and did in fact receive a settlement in full."

Ya'll should check into that Sharon. Maybe it will be of help to you.

I've said my piece for now, I'm gonna sit back, like many others, and see how this story unfolds.

The fair minded steelers who have taken an interest in this case, will exercise a reasonable amount of patience as has been suggested & requested. We will though, be very interested to see how fairly Billy is treated.

If you run into finiancial difficulties due to the drop in income, please don't hesitate to ask for assistance. I don't have bottomless pockets, but can certainly be counted on to offer some assistance.

Danny Hullihen has also very kindly offered to send some funds for assitance as well. So there are some among us who care about your delimma. Please don't be too proud or embarrished to let us know if you need us.

As far as patience, we are not going to bash, nor act hastily. We do have a few things in mind, perhaps some legal questions for the Emmons Company. We have started this form of questioning, but no suits are pending.

I am not concerned about who owns what, his cashiers check was made out to the Emmons Company, not an individual, and I feel that company is responsible no matter who is in charge. I will check into the Bulk Sales Act, just to have more options. I am sure Billy will keep you posted.

I will say, my husband was devestated when he learned his money was gone, and there would be no guitar. I did worry that he would have another heart attack, but he is tough.

What makes me sick, is I am sure the folks in question have more funds than we do, and have the low morals to rip people off. I am wondering what kind of a business it is
and what kind of people runs it. I personally don't think it is big enough to hide behind legalities, but I don't think those in charge are destitute either. It appears business is as usual.

Oh, well, this world is not perfect is it? We will keep you posted.

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I just recently sold one of our funeral homes so I feel that I am versed enough in the laws and legal aspects of business transactions...In a smooth, unified sale or transfer of ownership, the seller usually makes concessions or compensations for unfinished work that is still due to customers.

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what unfinished work did you leave behind

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Two funerals were arranged after the closing date, which had been set and postponed twice because of the same situation. The new owners paid me for what I had done up to the time of closing and they conducted the services keeping the rest of the money. No, I left nothing lying around undone.

But If that person took money from people kmowing he was going to file for B R, then I would think you could have some recourse In the Courts. Small Claims Court might be a good place to start. It only costs around five dollars to file.

Again, I feel your pain way out here In Arizona.

Bob Carlson.

Look, I don't know who is right or wrong. I don't know who owes who. I do know that the Emmons Company is an icon of the industry, with a storied tradition. I have the utmost respect for the Lashley family and wish them only the best. I also know that one of my fellow steelers, a kindred spirit, whom is financially disadvantaged, has been wronged.
This can't be wished away by all the good intentions in the world. I, like many of my fellow forumites, will watch this issue closely and pray that both a speedy and fair resolution for all parties will be found.

In the interim, I find nothing wrong with open, frank discussion of this issue. May God be with all of you who are involved.

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Steve Stallings
Bremond, Texas

[This message was edited by Steve Stallings on 03 October 2001 at 12:07 PM.]

To ignore this issue would be like walking away from a car wreck.

Mrs. J, Thanks for the responses. You are in my prayers.

I hope that this all works out, just as I hoped SGW would survive. Everyone agreed that Russ was a great guy also. The silence from the Emmons company is deafening.

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The silence from the Emmons company is deafening.

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I have e-mailed Mr. Lashley to inform him that some ignorant and uninformed Forumites are raking through the mud the venerable name of Emmons Steel Guitars and have urged him to register on the Forum and reply. A link to this thread was included.

Did you actually read these posts? Where is the Emmons name being sullied? It looks to me as if virtually everyone posting is going to great pains to do just the opposite. Far from being ignorant or uniformed, I see a discussion which is intelligent and certainly is factual based. I just don't get where you are coming from. The only anger and yelling going on seems to be the folks who want to stifle any discussion of the issue. This is not an issue of who likes Ron Lashley or who doesn't. It is not about who likes or dislikes Emmons guitars. It is not about that at all. It is about a friend of ours who has been wronged. It is asking questions about that exact issue. Nothing else sir. What would you do if you were the person out a guitar? Ignore it? As far as I'm concerned, the injured party has shown tremendous restraint on the forum. He specifically did not attack Mr. Lashley, and in fact laid the blame at the feet of Mr. Aycoth. Again, where has any attempt been made to tarnish the Emmons name? I don't see it and I'm pretty biased towards Emmons.

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Boycott anyone?

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This is a legal matter about which I know nothing and you know nothing. But that hasn't stopped some from rumor mongering.

We can then loan the guitar to another forum member who may be "in between guitars". It would only take about 50 members to kick in $40 each.

That would give us $2,000 to purchase a used Emmons. Anybody like this idea? Sound like fun?

[This message was edited by Danny Bates on 03 October 2001 at 03:08 PM.]

BUT!! The moral of this story is, that I paid with a credit card. I contacted the credit card company. They credited my account and said that they would have a recourse with the bank that the company used as a "vendor". I urge people to use a credit card if at all possible to order the guitar. This way you have a little hope that you won't get screwed. If the company doesn't take credit cards, they should. Even if they have to tack on the few percent credit card fee to the guitar.