How many did make records and played on Jazzfestivals. like we have overhere in EUROPE

[This message was edited by Henry on 04 January 2004 at 08:07 AM.]

Buddy Emmons' 'Steel Guitar Jazz' album from the 60s used legit NYC jazz guys, but the album wasn't produced or distributed by a jazz label.

I'm not aware of Chalker or anyone else playing Newport or the other major jazz festivals.

I agree that some steel players are excellent jazz practitioners, but nobody seems to call Jernigan or Emmons or Franklin when they're doing a new project. It's a pity, but how many bebop sax players do you hear on country recordings?

I believe it's the jazz world's loss.

There are others but I don't have first hand information about them.

Larry,
I live in a jazz town and the jazz players around here are way into the steel. For the most part I am welcomed by them and only limited by my ability.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 01 June 2003 at 09:47 AM.]

I got the Sho-Bud to add to my jazz derived compositons,
and ALSO to play in a little country band.. but that was secondary.

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 01 June 2003 at 02:56 PM.]

I play with new music improv groups and that gets lumped into jazz sorta.

Then there are some more advanced modal jazz groups that want me to play but I'm holding off till I have a better grip on early jazz. Another year of steady early jazz gigs and I should be ready.

One thing is that often the heavy jazz guys want me to play relatively simple melodic lines and color tones on my
E9 neck. There can be too many guys playing too many notes on the bandstand already. That may change as I get a better handle on the idiom though.

I'm don't think I'm doing much of anything for the instrument when you get down to it. I just like to play.

There are a few pro jazz guitar players in NYC that are picking up lap steel with a c6 tuning and bringing it on dates. Once they figure out how to make the thing sound good they will be making some big waves.

If somebody like Gary Carpenter or Buck Reid made the move to NYC they would be the darlings of the jazz scene here in days. They would also need to cut back on things like food and shelter for a couple years.

Does Buck's gig with Lyle's big band count as jazz in this thread ?

Bob

[This message was edited by Bob Hoffnar on 01 June 2003 at 10:34 AM.]

He plays with The Western Caravan at the rodeo bar when he is available. John Widgren hold the steel chair at that gig and they play plenty of swing.

Another guy that is busy playing with the jazz big boys is Dan Tyack out in Seattle.

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Brad's Page of Steel
A web site devoted to acoustic & electric lap steel guitars

[This message was edited by Brad Bechtel on 02 June 2003 at 02:43 PM.]

Are you trying to say that the steel tone is too whiny or something along those lines? Do you think a warmer tone (like from an old MSA) is more suited to jazz? And if we're talking about a solo instrument that plays above the rhythm section, why should the tone matter as long as it's pleasing (whatever that means)? Many instruments with a wide range of tonality (from fiddle & soprano sax to trombone) are suitable jazz solo instruments.

Except for those hard core traditionalist jazzers who don't like anything not
in the tradtional make up of a jazz band..as they see it.

I got a PSG exactly because I heard it's sound in my jazz derived music and couldn't get it any other way. Even knowing it would be a long time before I played it the way I hear it in the mix in my head. It actually has been faster than I expected.

Getting close to good jazz sounds... LOL
and what exactly is that.

Many hated lead guitarists for a long time..
It's a rythm instrument, how DARE they.
Charlie Christian was boo'ed for playing electric a few times.
Some thought you can't play jazz except on a L-7. ES-175 or ES-335.. tell that to Les Paul.

If you use it for what it CAN do, and not be mislead by some arbitrary expectations, it will serve you well.
If you try to force it into something it's not it won't.

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 03 June 2003 at 02:45 PM.]

Currently I play with a few groups that do 'jazz': Opera Jupiter, a group that doesn everything from Schubert to Ellington. Jive Turkey, a funky group that does some standards, and my own group the Unsanctified Gospel Revival, which does a number of tunes that fit in the intersection of jazz and gospel.

I'd love to play great on standard jazz changes, but obviously not enough, because I'm not there yet. I am currently working on playing half as good as Aretha Franklin sings, maybe when I'm there I'll work on the standards some more.

Even though I am a mediocre jazz player, I concur with Bob Hoffnar that the jazz players out there that I play with love the pedal steel, and whatever failures I have are totally due to my inadequacies as a player, not due to any predjudice against the instrument.

In terms of the 'voicing' issue, if this is refering to the tone thing, I tend to agree that the standard C6th tone that you might hear at a convention does tend to get in the way in a lot of jazz contexts. But this isn't in any way a limitation of the instrument. Whatever my limitations as a jazz player in terms of chops, I usually can come up with a tone that kills in a jazz context. This is really useful if you can't hang with the sax player......

Some of the best jazz solos of all time don't involve a lot of notes. Some great players to listen to are Johnny Hodges (his solos are written for steel guitar), Wes Montogomery, and my favorite slacker, Miles Davis.

The steel has an amazing ability to play vocal lines. Listen to the great jazz singers (e.g. BIlly Holiday) and cop their feel.

If you can't dazzle them with gnat notes, kill them with a huge tone. Don't be afraid to go beyond the standard steel sounds.

Go for the blues/gospel side of jazz rather than the technical. If you play a simple but soulful solo (with a big fat non-country sound) with the bends that the guitar players only wish they could play, you will impress them a lot more than playing a bunch of Buddy Emmons or Paul Franklin licks.

Listen to the Sacred Steel Masters such as Chuck and Darrick Campbell and hear how they use a wah to further the expressiveness of the steel. This can sound increadible on jazz styles from really traditional to funk.

If you're looking for a traditional jazz guitar sound you are absolutely right that it is really hard to get that on a pedal steel. The closest I have heard is on my C6th pedabro, which can get an amplified archtop type of sound electrically (helped by the fact that the pickup is about a foot in front of the bridge).

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Steel what?

I thought I was a jazz player (on six string) until I got in a combo with 3 real jazz cats. They took me to school (and I'm grateful).

The guys I play with in TJQ loathe the genre known as "smooth jazz". They're into Sonny Rollins, T. Monk, Miles Davis, Jobim, etc. They're purists, and I wouldn't get the steel within 50 feet of the stage.

I've heard some guys who could certainly play this stuff- Herby Wallace and Jim Cohen for two (I'm sure there are many others), but the tracks I heard behind them didn't swing. I'd like to hear those guys with a real kickin' band.

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Rick McDuffie
Tarheel Jazz Q-tet
Debbie Elam Band
www.tarheelmusic.com

[This message was edited by Rick McDuffie on 04 June 2003 at 05:53 PM.]

Absolutely.

[This message was edited by Jelle Biel on 05 June 2003 at 09:54 PM.]

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Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra SD-12 (Ext E9), Williams D-12 Crossover, Sierra S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, C6, A6)

[This message was edited by b0b on 19 April 2005 at 02:03 PM.]

quote:

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In addition to the obvious "bug guns" (Emmons, Rugg, Jernigan, Anderson, Wallace), these lesser known jazz steel players have CDs in the Forum catalog:

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