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http://home.comcast.net/~steves_garage

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Fred Justice,
Justice Custom Cases & Cabinets,
Fred's Music, www.fredjusticemusic.com

[This message was edited by Fred Justice on 27 November 2006 at 05:18 PM.]

I've been around the L.A. club circuit, mostly populated by 20-somethings, and a lot of the players would love to try steel in punk, metal, prog-rock....you name it. But they can't plunk down a huge chunk of money on an instrument when there are no resources for their styles. The steel community largely seems to have the attitude of "good" - we don't want that type.

That's too bad, because there are a LOT of teaching opportunities and a ton of instrument sales sitting there untapped.

From my own point of view (which is admittedly, not front-row center of the Opry), the days are mostly gone when the musicians were a vital, identifiable, and recognized part of the star's personna and sound. ET, Buck, and Hag usually toured with the same band they recorded with. They appreciated their musicians! (What a novel concept?) They usually had the same guys in the band, and always recognized the band and gave them a chance to shine, too! Yesterday, it was mostly the "sound" that sold a star, today it's mostly "image" and sex appeal. The sound and band's musical contributions are strictly secondary. I also don't think most stars and recording companies want a musician who can do fresh new stuff, they just want the right "look", and if they can play something close to Paul's part, that's just icing on the cake. Oh, there are exceptions; there's still groups that want a "Sneaky Pete" type, but they're mostly obscure, unknowns, and they'll be happy to have you if you'll work for next to nothing and don't bring a lot of baggage with you.

I feel that when musicians (of any type) "get an attitude", there's usually a pretty good reason. They're just like most employees in other occupations, in that their "bad attitudes" are not usually created by their co-workers, but more often by someone "up the line" who wants things done their way, and "no thanks", they don't want any discussion.

http://www.carrierodriguez.com/

http://play.rhapsody.com/carrierodriguez/sevenangelsonabicycle/seve nangelsonabicycle?didAutoplayBounce=true

..Greg Leisz is starting to sound just like my good friend Buck Dilly

[This message was edited by Pat Burns on 28 November 2006 at 09:27 AM.]

The stuff you mentioned might be relevant to a sideman steel player of some sort, but most of the "non-traditional" steel I hear players talk about wanting is guys who will play it as a member of a band in styles NOT normally associated with steel - hardcore, metal, punk, hiphop. etc.

I could have handled the job, just couldn't have afforded the pay cut My wife was 8 months pregnant.

I played 1 gig with a local alt-country group, then they flaked. They were pretty green, so it didn't break my heart.

Anyway..the problem with the younger generation in my view, is not just with the Steel..its pretty much with everything..

like Burger King..

They want it now..

I feel that very few of the younger generation MINIONS are of the "work hard for a longtime to reach your goal" mindset.

Video games, fast food, on-line tests, on- line anything puts many folks in the "I need to do it now" mode.

I am of the opinion that our entire society is turning into a 30 second thing.

I think the desire to play Steel is there, but I think the actual commitment of time is not what it used to be. And of course the financial commitment is part of the equation as well.

A very new student came by the house for a lesson maybe 3 months ago, he understood the 6 string neck but had no clue about the Steel. He told me he had like 4 gigs lined up in the next few weeks. He needed to learn some GO TO licks so he could play a few solo's with the band, next week...

As I showed him the basic string grips and some basic AB Ped phrases, it was apparent he was not going to play anything anytime soon. He was real frustrated that he could not get the 10,8,6..8,6,5...6,5,4...5,4,3..grips down in less than a minute. He asked me how long it took me to just play each of the grips without thinking about it..I told him 30 years ! Actually I told him a month or two of daily constant practice will bring it in. He said he could do it in a week.

I don't know if he did or not, I never heard from him again. By the way he was playing on a very old student Guitar that someone took advantage of him with. The C Pedal didn't work and the knee levers were not even connected to anything. He said the guy who sold it to him told him it was a very Hi quality brand X and that it was a very popular Steel Guitar. It was brand X's student model. A piece of Cxxp....The guy , according to the student had two D10's in his music room so I am gonna go out on a limb and say the guy new what he was doing when he sold the student guitar to the newbie. And at $500 smackaroo's... A mindset to play in a week along with a piece of Crxp Steel is not a good equation.

just my morning take..and rant..

t

[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 28 November 2006 at 03:09 AM.]

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zum SD10 peavy session 400 peavy XR600G
if its not a zum steel it isn't real
just trying to steel for the Lord>

I have been lucky in the fact that I always treated people with respect, treated them how I wanted to be treated and that disolves a lot of attitudes. I love everybody and everybody loves me.

I'm 38 years of age which prolly makes me old by Nashville standards. My life long dream was to play for an artist on tour someday and I'm not quite ready to give that dream up just yet but I've been playing PSG less than a year and the phone is already ringing. Not many steelers in my area and there's a band on every corner. I do play lead guitar and sing as well so that gives me an edge. Point is I'm working! My little 3 piece band is pretty booked up and I have 3 more steel gigs in December with a great, good paying country band that I first played with in October. Two of the members have won Grammy's and another was nominated. I would have never had the chance to play with these guys if it were not for PSG.

The reason I took up steel was to go places I have never been. I guess I'm on my way!

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Rains SD10
Fender Steel King
B-bender Telecaster
Line 6 Flextone II Plus
www.jimwalkeronline.com
My Space

Tony does bring up a good point, in that steel is much harder to learn than most other instruments. A lot of people don't have the moxie to hang in there. You have both hands, both feet, and usually both knees, all going in different directions. Add that to the problem of maintaining good intonation (not really mandatory for a regular guitar player), and the instrument is a real bear to learn. It takes a lot of time and dedication, and in today's world of instant gratification expectations, many decide to move on, or just add a B-Bender to their regular axe.

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www.natelapointe.net

The sideman gig in touring bands has always been tough.

I'm reading a really good book, can't put it down: "Desperadoes: The Roots Of Country Rock." Written by John Einarson, published in 2001 by Cooper Square Press.

There were several steel players who wove in and out of that scene, which mostly took place in Los Angeles in the late 60's to the early 70's. A lot of "musical chairs" among the steelers, the majority of which were pretty young, trying to scratch out a living.

The main four mentioned most often are: Jay Dee Maness, Sneaky Pete, Al Perkins, and Rusty Young. Pete was about 10 years older than those other guys, and he also had his career as an animator to fall back on. There are quotes in the book from all of them. Tom Brumley has some good comments in there as well, pertaining to his experience playing with Rick Nelson.

Also part of the scene in some fashion were: Red Rhodes, Lloyd Green, Buddy Cage, and Buddy Emmons.

With the exception of the trust fund kid, Gram Parsons, nobody was livin' high on the hog, that's for sure.

I hope he makes decent money-the most exciting younger steeler around today, to me anyway, is Dave Berzansky of The Hacienda Brothers.

When I saw them play here in Santa Rosa awhile back-people loved it when Dave would "take a ride." But then there were a lot of middle-aged folks that likely grew up on the Burritos, Poco, and New Riders in that crowd, so they would have some appreciation for steel.

It's good to hear from Nate's post that some of the twenty-somethings enjoy steel.

The audience obviously has to get enthused for the thing to fly.

"The Evangenitals," I love it! I'll be on the lookout for them to come up to Northern California.
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Mark

[This message was edited by Mark Eaton on 28 November 2006 at 03:22 PM.]

I just became "old" at 37. When I was much younger (31-36), I had to play for pop/rock bands whose idea of an appropriate steel line was to mimic the vocal. And I couldn't play anything faster than a quarter note or otherwise I'd be accused of "overplaying".

Was I in demand more than the more accomplished steelers? I don't think so as long as I wanted money. I think some "younger" musicians are not as money-minded as they would be if they were a decade or two older. But what do I know? I'm not young any more.

I can't say that playing that style was a wise choice of genres since the pay was lousier than that of the country counterparts and it slowed my development. But I'm glad I'm older now. My once excessively youthful and handsome appearance no longer hinder my pursuit of better playing.

quote:

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...there's a lot of music being made and there's a lot of steelers being called on.

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Jon, a lot of that depends on where you are. Fortunately, for you, the "Big Apple" (with it's 8+ million people in one city) has plenty of bands and venues from which to choose.

However...were you to plop your tail in Baltimore or Richmond for a spell, you might be sitting at home too!

I don't blame you for not wanting to play steel in those types of bands. That's not who *you* are. Nothing wrong with that, and I think staying true to your musical ideals is better than selling out just to play gigs you don't like. I've done plenty of those over the years, and simply don't take them anymore.

However, I don't feel it's out of line for a guitarist to ask for...or be taught..enough 3-chord "go to" licks to be able to throw steel into a few songs. No, it doesn't make him a "real" steel player, nor a "real" student of the instrument.

But it gets him playing. MAYBE he'll want to learn more. MAYBE he'll want to buy a good steel - and somebody sells him a good used one...and buys a NEW one. Market expansion.

IMO we shoulod NEVER discourage such players. So a guy had a POS instrument? Make a few adjustments, try to make it semi-playable and teach him enough to get by on a simple rock song. Who does it hurt? All it does is increase the steel community by one, and create a larger market for instruments and accessories.

This has been a long-standing beef I've had with the state of educational materials, and the attitude of teachers. There are "instant" courses for almost every instrument EXCEPT steel, and it shouldn't be TOO tough to come up with a moveable 4-chord cheat-sheet instruction package....using what I've called pockets (the simplest being banjo rolls on a few strings, and mashing the A&B pedals on a normal E9 guitar, and whatever the best method is for a minor chord - I forget since I quit E9).

And if a kid wants to play a Blink 182 tune, HELP HIM do it! Don't say "sorry, you can't - you haven't paid your dues learning the Ray Price catalog yet".

I couldn't find a teacher around L.A. who would teach me blues, rock, or even country rock. Everyone was country based that I got a response from. I would suppose the ones who didn't respond at all simply didn't want to be involved. So it seems to be a do-it-yourself system.

So while there is a demand for younger players, and many WANT to play alternative styles, they hit a brick wall when it comes to learning the instrument unless they are willing to go into uncharted territory alone.

I'm NOT a younger player, but play alternative styles...and I'm flying solo. I do get some help from some of the more open-minded folks on the forum, but learning steel via email isn't the easiest method. But if you're going to go outside the "norm", it's the ONLY method available - which just seems wrong.

[This message was edited by Jim Sliff on 28 November 2006 at 05:06 PM.]

I think there was some tongue-in-cheek goin' on there...or at least I hope there was.

quote:

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SOL HOOPII

MOTION PICTURE ADVISOR AND PERFORMER. TUNING AND STYLE INNOVATOR, COMPOSER, RECORDING ARTIST. "MUSIC EVANGELIST FOR HIS LORD", AND "HAWAIIAN MUSIC'S GREATEST STEEL GUITARIST"

BORN: 1902 HONOLULU, HAWAII
DIED: 1953
INDUCTED: 1979

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Got to go. Maybe more later. Any questions contact me.

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Emmons Lashley Legrande D-10 8/4, Peavey Nashville 400, Peavey Nashville 112, Peavey Bandit, Baggs Fiddle Bridge, Peavey Profex II, Several Fiddles, Fender Tele and Strat, Martin Guitars, Eastman 815 Mandolin, Johnson Dobro, Rich and Taylor Banjo, Yamaha Keyboard, Upright Bass, Yamaha Bass, Korg Tuners.

racmusic.tripod.com

I'm sure there is some demand for younger guys in country where steel has more of a stronghold than, say in punk or metal.